I Was Once A Heathen Inbred (crucified, messages, praying, sin)

[firstborn888]

Even the very early Fathers of the Church understood that the Scriptures could be understood on many different levels.
St. Augustine, for example, distinguished between the "silver" of the more obvious meanings of Scripture and the "gold"
revealed by contemplation. And, nowadays, as you know, developmental psychology has shown that human consciousness
develops from one level of consciousness to another, and in a definite sequence.

Persons at each level of consciousness see the world differently. It can even be said that they see a different world.
They are also necessarily going to understand the same Scriptures in a different light.

.... and then one has the new problem...
of how to explain what one sees to those who have eyes but cannot see.

(excerpt from "How we see Scripture")

[helios666]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

Sorry, couldn't resist. I was once a heathen (sorry, not inbred) and some would still call me that because I don't go to church. "That heathen....she don't go to church"!!!! I'm probably more of a christian than 90% of those "non-heathens" sitting in those pews. But never did I ever think I would hear all of this nonsense about universal salvation....it never even entered my mind that such wild deception could be so rampant and widely believed. Nevermiind that they have taken over every Christian board imaginable. I'm telling you people this is serious satanic deception that has to be fought tooth and nail....NOW. I'm so sick of seeing all these threads about it and I think it's time for all of us to really start fighting it just like we've done in the past with all the other lies and deceit.

Those of us who have been here a long time know what I'm talking about. Those of you who have only been here a short while can see how exasperating it can be. This really used to be a place for Christians, albeit short-lived, and we've gone toe to toe with a bunch of different lies so why is this one taking over??? Because we're letting it!! C'mon, roll up your sleeves, take the gloves off and start swinging!! How many threads can you start? How hard can you pray for topics??? How many scriptures can you find to fight it and how many times are you willing to repeat it? Because that's what it's going to take. Repetition and relentlessness.

Ilene, based on your post it sounds like you are seriously trying to start some sort of "movement", assumably among those who have as equal a fervent hatred and anger as you for the universalist point of view. You're encouraging them to post relentlessly, repetitively as you said- whatever it takes...takes to do what??? Judge, correct them? Alienate them? Make them feel like they're subhuman, horrible people?!? I do have to say that I've seen a few posts on this thread that should make you proud, if that's what you're going for. Now if I'm wrong then please, do correct me. It's just that your words are strong, and not very christian- that is, if I am to keep in mind that the word Christian is derivative of CHRIST jesus, who would likely take serious issue with all the ridiculous dissonance and lack of harmony between those of you who claim to be a member of a religion based on his teachings...

I really, really hope I am missing something because if in fact you are trying to, in a nutshell, trying to get people on your 'side' in order to bully those who have a view different than yours- well, that is seriously, very disturbing. If you feel so strongly in your beliefs, why do you care what others say? Unless you are unsure in your beliefs and therefore their words are a threat to you- in which case, why not just avoid any thread, or ignore any posts made by those you know to post such influential and moving words?!

I don't even understand why christians have such a problem with christian universalists anyway. Only reason I can see is that for the "wrath of hell" and "eternal damnation" preaching types, it takes away from their feelings of superiority, and the enjoyment they seem to get in telling everyone who doesn't think like they do that will go to hell....


And I'm about done, but not before I add this:

Originally Posted by firstborn888

Even the very early Fathers of the Church understood that the Scriptures could be understood on many different levels.
St. Augustine, for example, distinguished between the "silver" of the more obvious meanings of Scripture and the "gold"
revealed by contemplation. And, nowadays, as you know, developmental psychology has shown that human consciousness
develops from one level of consciousness to another, and in a definite sequence.

Persons at each level of consciousness see the world differently. It can even be said that they see a different world.
They are also necessarily going to understand the same Scriptures in a different light.

.... and then one has the new problem...
of how to explain what one sees to those who have eyes but cannot see.

(excerpt from "How we see Scripture")

Well said. Albeit disturbing- for it is usually "those who have eyes but cannot see" that are the first to dictate, usually in vivid, blaring detail, a single, specific "path" to god. Which, since I definitely have god in mind, is a path I personally will avoid at all costs, cos it sure doesn't seem like a very pleasant journey, nor one with any sort of momentum if they can't stop judging and condemning long enough to keep their eyes on the road...

[pcamps]

I'm probably more of a christian than 90% of those "non-heathens" sitting in those pews

This statement of yours Illene is revealing .

How and why are you comparing yourself to 90% ?

[legoman]

Originally Posted by firstborn888

Non-universalists (in some cases) show their lack of knowledge of the real virtues of God by revealing that they don't see any practical value in salvation if you are not saving someone from a bad eternity.

This is a very good point firstborn.

[Ilene Wright]

[quote]

Originally Posted by helios666

Ilene, based on your post it sounds like you are seriously trying to start some sort of "movement", assumably among those who have as equal a fervent hatred and anger as you for the universalist point of view. You're encouraging them to post relentlessly, repetitively as you said- whatever it takes...takes to do what??? Judge, correct them? Alienate them? Make them feel like they're subhuman, horrible people?!? I do have to say that I've seen a few posts on this thread that should make you proud, if that's what you're going for. Now if I'm wrong then please, do correct me. It's just that your words are strong, and not very christian- that is, if I am to keep in mind that the word Christian is derivative of CHRIST jesus, who would likely take serious issue with all the ridiculous dissonance and lack of harmony between those of you who claim to be a member of a religion based on his teachings...

Wow, you pretty smart there Helio!! And where do you see hatred and anger?? Fervent, relentless and repetitive are the name of the universalists game, I'm just trying to get Christians to fight the good fight, like we are told to do. Universalism is heresy at it's worst and will be the cause of many a soul ending up in hell. I think that's worth removing the gloves and rolling up your sleeves to fight against the very thing God warns about in the Bible........THE DEVIL'S DECEPTION.

I really, really hope I am missing something because if in fact you are trying to, in a nutshell, trying to get people on your 'side' in order to bully those who have a view different than yours- well, that is seriously, very disturbing. If you feel so strongly in your beliefs, why do you care what others say? Unless you are unsure in your beliefs and therefore their words are a threat to you- in which case, why not just avoid any thread, or ignore any posts made by those you know to post such influential and moving words?!

I'm getting from what you said above that you are not a Christian. So, YES, you are definitely missing something. That would be Jesus Christ.

I don't even understand why christians have such a problem with christian universalists anyway. Only reason I can see is that for the "wrath of hell" and "eternal damnation" preaching types, it takes away from their feelings of superiority, and the enjoyment they seem to get in telling everyone who doesn't think like they do that will go to hell....

Moderator cut: deleted due to insult/attacking Christians believe the Bible when it says the path is narrow to heaven but the path to hell is wide and that not many will find the narrow path. We're trying to do something about that if we can and that's to fight all of these false teachings and lies.

[Shibumi]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

C'mon, roll up your sleeves, take the gloves off and start swinging!! How many threads can you start? How hard can you pray for topics??? How many scriptures can you find to fight it and how many times are you willing to repeat it? Because that's what it's going to take. Repetition and relentlessness.

Are you also willing to learn from others, in honest debate? It's called "give and take" I believe. What if your message were wrong to being with? Would you still pursue the "repetition and relentlessness" tactic?

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by pcamps

I'm probably more of a christian than 90% of those "non-heathens" sitting in those pews

This statement of yours Illene is revealing .

How and why are you comparing yourself to 90% ?

Look, I've been in enough churches to know what is going on behind the scenes. They are not all like that, but the majority of the people sitting in the pews are there for show and because they think going to church is going to save them. It's what you do outside of that building that matters. And what they are doing outside of that building shows no signs of Christianity. It's called HYPOCRISY.

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by Shibumi

Are you also willing to learn from others, in honest debate? It's called "give and take" I believe. What if your message were wrong to being with? Would you still pursue the "repetition and relentlessness" tactic?

I believe debating is what we're doing here. The Bible IS NOT WRONG, it's not me who wrote it. I just believe God's Word and yes, I will defend it to death if that's what it takes.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

Look, I've been in enough churches to know what is going on behind the scenes. They are not all like that, but the majority of the people sitting in the pews are there for show and because they think going to church is going to save them. It's what you do outside of that building that matters. And what they are doing outside of that building shows no signs of Christianity. It's called HYPOCRISY.

I don't understand what being more of a christian is

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by pcamps

I don't understand what being more of a christian is

Well camps you must first be a Christian to understand the Bible through the Holy Spirit's guidance to be able to understand what a Christian is and should be. God's word, The Bible is the authority on the matter.