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Excellent post, Sciotamicks, and responsibly handled. You don't merely make assertions but back up your statements with a detailed examination of the Scriptures.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Jn3:16
God loves His creation. He has provided a way for 'whoever believes'. the way is open for anyone who will believe, if they are able to believe.
And there you hit the nail on the head: IF they are able to believe. They have the equipment, as it were, of believing, since everyone everywhere believes in something. Their own sinful nature, however, constrains them from believing savingly in Christ and submitting to his lordship. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God and cannot submit to his law. The person who is not born again cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
I agree with what Sciotamicks wrote, and I also agree with this. There is actually no contradiction between the two. Man has a will, and without grace he wills only to reject God and to rebel against him. That is why he is judged. What Sciotamicks wrote does not in any way work against the idea that man has a will and will one day be held responsible for his sins.
Thanks Jremy and Twin.spin. This exegesis is for those who hold the Universalist view that all men are "saved" because of Christ's atoning work. This is a contradiction of the work Christ acconplished, for Christ redeemed the covenant which was sinned against in Adam, and His atoning work opened up the gates to the garden once again, so that mankind can enter into it, noting that man is not in it due to Christ's work, because he isn't, and only until his belief in Christ is in effect, that he can enter into it and become part of the New Jerusalem.
Universalism cannot address the exegesis of Kosmos, and in it alone, defeats the entire paradigm from its onset, to its outset. The main issue with Universalism is context, and it blatantly disregards context that disagree with their paradigm, and hand picks verse structure, out of context, eisegetically and deceitful in its promotion, in order to spread a lie, that has no foundation in regards to the entire message of the scriptures, and is even usurped by the most beloved passage of the Christian faith.
And there you hit the nail on the head: IF they are able to believe. They have the equipment, as it were, of believing, since everyone everywhere believes in something. Their own sinful nature, however, constrains them from believing savingly in Christ and submitting to his lordship. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God and cannot submit to his law. The person who is not born again cannot see the kingdom of God.
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Moderator cut: insulting comment
I assume you are claiming to be born again (As in "reborn as Spirit")? Could you give me a demonstration of your ability to be like the wind and "bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." I assume you can . . . IF you have been reborn again . . right?
Rebirth as Spirit occurs AFTER our death . . . NOT while we are alive in the flesh. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
well I have no problem saying I am born again. I have the new spirit that God has given me as the new creation of 2 cor.5:17. I do not have to wait until I am dead, for I have a new spirit and with that spirit I am seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (eph 2:6) I doubt if I can properly explain it for you, but I know that God has done it and I can live that knowing.
well I have no problem saying I am born again. I have the new spirit that God has given me as the new creation of 2 cor.5:17. I do not have to wait until I am dead, for I have a new spirit and with that spirit I am seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (eph 2:6) I doubt if I can properly explain it for you, but I know that God has done it and I can live that knowing.
I understand that you are conceived anew. You have been "adopted" and "born of God" (conceived) as an "embryo soul" while in the physical body (spiritual womb). But . . . you will not be born again (reborn as Spirit) . . . until you die (leave the womb). There is no magic and no mystery to it. When you are really reborn as Spirit after death you WILL really be like the wind.
Readers of the forum, this Universalist exemplifies the nature of all of their rebuttals in the Universalist camp when they are unable to properly defend their paradigm. They are left with nothing but pure assumptions, zero exegesis, and indirect/direct attacks on the those that have done their research, spent their time in monumental study, producing the fruit thereof that is laden throughout the scriptures. Universalism is a false doctrine based on elementary analysis.
I agree. He has done the same thing in other threads. Mystic, in all of your posts I've seen this pattern. Not only that, but I rarely, if ever, see you back up your assertions with Scripture. That fact alone is very telling. That is why I usually ignore your posts.
It is true that one must believe, follow, and obey Christ in order to receive the blessings. But that Christ died for all is plain from scripture.
Suppose I said: "I so love my children that whoever wants to will receive an equal share of my estate..."
Plainly "whoever" refers to all my children. It does not refer to only those who want their share. Similarly, "For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth..." Christ died for "whosoever" not just for "whosoever believeth" but only those who believe receive the blessing.
Consider what this verse says regarding limited atonement:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them
Notice that Satan has blinded those who believe not the gospel. That means he caused them to believe a lie and reject the truth.
What truth do these blinded people reject?
They reject the chief cornerstone.
They reject that Christ died for them to save them from their sins.
But according to limited atonement, these non-elect believe the truth because in fact Christ did not die for them. Heck, their not blinded at all.
Last edited by june 7th; 02-04-2010 at 09:15 PM..
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