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Old 02-05-2013, 08:15 AM
 
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Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Based on the Words of Jesus the Christ our Lord and Savior, Before He died on the cross for our sins He spoke these things. Now after He died, and was raised up into heaven Saul called Paul says that:

Act 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

Now, if Jesus said that after He was raised into heaven that many would come claiming to have seen, or heard Him in diverse places, then does that make Saul a lier? How can we know for sure that what Paul(Saul) claims is true or false? How do we prove it to ourselves and to one another?
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Central Florida
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Paul and the Gospels are not in conflict because they are different types of literature, not systematic theology. N.T. Wright is excellent for understanding what Paul is writing about in Romans.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is no conflict. Jesus was born, lived, and died in the dispensation of the age of the Jews, or age of Israel. Most of what Jesus taught pertained to the Jewish age and to the future Kingdom age or Millennium-the kingdom of God. And of course, to the Gospel. What Paul taught were doctrines that pertain to the dispensation of the church. The dispensation we are now living in. The church age began on the day of Pentecost 50 days after the resurrection of Christ. Acts 2:1. Paul was made an Apostle by the resurrected Christ and commissioned to reveal the church age doctrines that had been revealed to him by God.

Acts 25:14 'And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew dialect, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard to kick against the goads.' 15) ''And I said, 'Who art Thou, Lord?' And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. 16) 'But arise, and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you (Church age doctrines). 17) Delivering you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, 18) to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'

Ephesians chapter 3 talks about the 'mystery'. This refers to the dispensation of the church, which was completely unknown to the O.T. prophets. The church age was hidden, kept under wraps. Verses 8-10 read, ''To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9) and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery (the church age) which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things; 10) in order that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places (Angelic beings).

Jesus came into the world in the likeness of men in order to go to the Cross and redeem the human race from sin. His teachings during His ministry were not aimed at the church which didn't even exist as of yet. It wasn't until the Jews rejected Him as Messiah near the end of His ministry, that He turned His attention to the church. Matthew 16:18 being the first mention by Jesus of the church-which was a reference to believers of the church age who are a part of the body of Christ. Again, the vast majority of what Christ spoke of pertained to the kingdom age which is the Millennium and will be brought in when Christ returns at the Second Advent, and to the age of Israel in which He was living.

And Paul was chosen by God to teach the doctrines that pertain to us today in this dispensation of the Church. The doctrines by which a Christian is to live during this dispensation.
As usual Mike, a little light in the midst of confusion.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:19 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
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Originally Posted by donnyb View Post
there are those of the liberal camp (theologically speaking) who want to take the bible apart and make it say things that are not there or NOT say things that are there. the gospels themselves have been determined with no proof whatsoever to have been written much later and by several people who where not even of the first century. this way they can distort and ridicule the writings as that of mere man and not of inspired by the Holy Spirit as the scripture claims.
During the age of the Apostles there was no compiled New Testament and the Apostolic Letters pointed the readers to the Old Testament, when they spoke of The Scriptures, they were speaking about the Tenakh and The Prophets...They were not speaking about the Letters to the churches that they themselves were writing at that moment...
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Basking in God's Love!
307 posts, read 285,117 times
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Jesus was speaking to a Jewish audience living under the Law of Moses. After Jesus ascended to the Father's right hand, He called Paul and appeared to Paul and gave Paul the revelation of the "Mystery". Yes what Jesus taught to the Jews living under the Law of Moses is a bit different than what Jesus gave to Paul for us which was the setting aside of that Law of Moses and the revelation of the Grace of God.

The only contradictions are in the minds of those who do not understand that something has changed. We are in a different dispensation. Kind of like reading the manual for a 1920's model Ford truck and a 2013 Ford truck. They are both made by Ford and both are trucks but things have changed a bit. You cannot fix a 2013 Ford truck using the manual of the 1920's Ford truck.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:26 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,192,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
i dont understand the conflict between the gospel of Jesus and everything that falls under "pauline theology" in the new testament. i hear/read a lot of people saying the 2 are completely different. here are 2 links making such claims

Pauline Christianity

Statements about Paul by Prominent Theologians and Bible Scholars

can someone explain what the "differences" would be? or why they don't conflict also would be good
thanks
They really aren't different. In the past couple years I've taught through Romans and Philippians and Galatians. I've also preached through Ephesians. In every one of them I did a lot of referencing to the Gospels. Everything Paul says can be backed up by Christ, and the OT.

The only difference is that Paul "fleshes out" the doctrines a bit more to explain how it should affect how we live in the church age.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:00 PM
 
9,690 posts, read 10,018,190 times
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The most profound difference between the doctrines of Apostle Paul and Lord Jesus is that Jesus said Don`t judge or be Judged...And Paul said ``When we Judge the world ``...Which can bring a spiritual conflict when we Judge ..... The Paul taught on the subjection of Women before the Corinthian church , where Jesus would treat Woman with respect and gave women Gifts of Holy Spirit equal to men ....Apart from that there is No difference and Paul had miracles faith through Jesus and Jesus healed people through Paul's prayers and had miracle many times, and received understanding and brilliant revelations of the gospel as a witness to Jesus Christ
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:41 AM
 
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~ Jesus Said: "Do not call anyone on earth your father;
for One Is Your Father He Who Is In Heaven." - Matt.23:9

Paul refers the service of himself, Silvanus and Timothy
as of their fathers to the church of Thessalonians. - 1Thess.2:11

Paul refers to himself as Timothy's father. - Phil.2:22

Paul refers to Isaac as their father. - Rom.9:10
[Jesus never refered HIS Disciples to Abraham, Isaac or Jacob as their fathers.]

Because God prophesied Abraham to be 'the father of Many Nations'?
Paul said, Abraham is the father of us all. - Rom. 4:16
[Jesus never refered HIS Disciples to Abraham as their father.]

Paul said he Worshiped The God of his fathers. - Acts 24:14

Jesus never referred His Disciples to The God of anyone else.
Jesus referred His Disciples to His God and to His Father
as their God and as their Father also.

~ My God is The God 0f Jesus, My Father is The Father 0f Jesus.

I don't have to go through any other man on earth past or present
to get to my God and my Father but through Jesus.

Jesus said, He is The Way, The Truth and The Life
no one comes to The Father but by Him.
Because only Jesus Is One With The Father.

Peter at times spoke to the Jews of Abraham, Issac and Jacob being their fathers.
But then,
The 12 Apostles 0f The Lamb were sent to The Lost Sheep 0f The House 0f Israel.

Paul being An Apostles 0f The Gentiles should've been very different.
But still yet Paul even refered to himself as their father many times!

Paul even refered to himself as their father
chasting virgins in betrothing the Corinthians to One Husband (christ). - 2Cor.11:2

So, Paul didn't know it all...
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Old 08-03-2014, 02:29 PM
 
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Default paul's the Apostle to the gentiles

the apostle Paul was a devout Jew who had a salvation experience on the road to Damascus. the ascended lord Jesus Christ revealed the current "saved by grace" salvation through faith alone. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.... read this and the rest of Paul's epistle before you decide against Paul. he is a follower of Our Lord Jesus Christ and is led by Jesus.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:00 PM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,785,792 times
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Jesus sent His followers as the son of man ,the servant of God, was sent with the same words and glory He was sent with. Paul did not use those words but made up his own gospel.

If he had said; "The one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep" or " I am the light of the world, no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because he will possess the light of life, if he had continued in the words of Jesus and the prophet's of the Most High he would have been a genuine disciple. Since he did not continue in the words of Jesus and all of Gods prophets he was a fraud.

Anyone who has heard from the Father and learned from Him comes to me.
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