Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You are absolutley correct, which does not exclude you from its effect.
I rejoice in His goodness, but 1 Tim 2 or 1 Tim 4 speak in no way whatsoever in support of the "all mankind" are saved theology. All they imply is that the partition has been removed so that all men, "can follow, or find influence" to the knowledge of truth. The barrier had been removed so that not only Jews, but then, also Gentiles, have that access.
The whole premise of Paul's commission.
To expand the kingdom into the Gentile world.
It says what it says. It means all men, in that all men are sinners. All sinners will be saved. I said will be, OK? I'm not saying all are saved now (in the full sense of the word) and I'm not saying when all sinners will be saved. But the scriptures teach that it will happen and it's only wishful thinking to deny it. We are not to walk by sight and sound but rather by faith in what God has declared and that God will accomplish it. And praise God for it.
God is said to be justifying (declaring righteous) the impious. The self righteous hate this one verse and I love to quote it...LOL. I love to shine the spotlight of the Gospel on darkened hearts.
Those that believe the Gospel know that God will have all men to be saved, and that He will bring all sinners to glory. Those that believe this truth believe the Gospel. They believe in the promises of the Gospel.
As such, those that believe the Gospel are said to be (in the present tense) imputed and reckoned so with Christ's righteousness. Those that deny what God has declared do not believe the Gospel, and testify they are not born from above but are still in the flesh. And until such time as they are born of the Spirit, they cannot, and will not, believe what God has declared and accomplished in Jesus on the cross.
I don't think I do. I think you don't believe the Gospel...LOL
I noticed that instead of addressing my response directly, you merely said that I don't believe the gospel. That won't help you. Admit it: Your take on God's will is very incomplete, as I pointed out.
sciotamics and Jremy, did you do that study on "ransom" yet? If you did you would not be saying what you have been saying concerning 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
Is this a study that you yourself did through exegesis and contextual examination of the passage? When universalists start exegeting passages this way, not taking verses out of context, then they will be closer to thinking God's thoughts after him.
Let me know when you want to go about this. I will read such an exegesis willingly.
So you aren't a universalist, but you are an eschatological universalist. Very big difference.
You believe that the salvation of all men, that is anthropos, to make it clear for those Lake of Fire redemptionists, will become saved. I believe any Christian, regardless of denominaiton wants or believes this, as the kingdom expands and grows...heck! I believe that. Simple demographics tell us that starting from 100 AD...the increase is evident!
Eusebius,
I believe you don't understand the term "ransom"...meaning we are slaves....a price paid for sin, not the sinner, but for the sins of the slave, since we are slave to sin, Christ took away the sin, so that the slave, might be saved.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 02-09-2010 at 01:59 PM..
Reason: typo
all your learning, denominationalism, vain wisdom hides the truth even in a clear scripture as this.
More rhetoric. What is it with all these ad hominem attacks? Don't you who do that realize how desperate it makes you look?
Shawn71: Exegete the passages. Examine them in their context, verse by verse. Until you do, you will not be thinking God's thoughts after him but merely thinking your own thoughts and imposing them on Scripture.
I believe you don't understand the term "ransom"...meaning we are slaves....a price paid for sin, not the sineer, but for the sins of the slave, since we are slave to sin, Christ took away the sin, so that the slave, might be saved.
sciotamics, just the fact that you said what you did above shows me you have not done an exhaustive research on ransom or you would not have written what you wrote.
The term "ransom" does not have the meaning "we are slaves" though sometimes slaves are ransomed.
Neither does ransom mean "a price paid for sin."
Neither does ransom mean "a price paid for the sins of a slave."
Please, quit taking stabs in the dark and just research out ransom in the old Testament.
More rhetoric. What is it with all these ad hominem attacks? Don't you who do that realize how desperate it makes you look?
Shawn71: Exegete the passages. Examine them in their context, verse by verse. Until you do, you will not be thinking God's thoughts after him but merely thinking your own thoughts and imposing them on Scripture.
why don't you just let the verse simply state what it obviously does.
why don't you just let the verse simply state what it obviously does.
Circular reasoning, my friend. You first have to show that it "obviously" states this before accusing me of not letting it state it.
[quote]Your exegesis to me = vain wisdom.
I'm sorry that you are neither interested in, nor appreciate the value of, sound interpretation of scripture. How in the world can you fully understand how a word is meant without looking at the whole context and the original language? Exegesis = vain wisdom? Making such a statement shows only how little you appreciate what is involved in interpreting a text, particularly complex ones. Take on yourself the task, for example, of examining Romans 5 in its entirety, verse by verse, using the original language.
That, of course, would take a lot of work. It's far, far easier to proof-text and say, "See! The verse says "all," so the case is closed."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
