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Now I am not looking for a fight. I realize I have said some things that other don't like, but that has never been my intent. I have based all of my views on Biblical Truth and if you cannot handle that then this topic is not for you.
Biblical truth is a touchie subject and I know that not everyone is at the same level of maturity and there will be disagreements but please lets keep them civil so the mods don't have to step in.
No my point is SIN. There are several lists of sin within the Bible and depending on your level of maturity and your knowledge of the Bible your concept of sin will bear your fruit. I will start the list with Romans 1, this is not to rehash the discussion HotinAZ started so please keep it on topic.
Verses 28-32
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Now I am not looking for a fight. I realize I have said some things that other don't like, but that has never been my intent. I have based all of my views on Biblical Truth and if you cannot handle that then this topic is not for you.
Biblical truth is a touchie subject and I know that not everyone is at the same level of maturity and there will be disagreements but please lets keep them civil so the mods don't have to step in.
No my point is SIN. There are several lists of sin within the Bible and depending on your level of maturity and your knowledge of the Bible your concept of sin will bear your fruit. I will start the list with Romans 1, this is not to rehash the discussion HotinAZ started so please keep it on topic.
Verses 28-32
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Sounds alot like todays world.
Well, you know I have something to add to this..
You said:
Quote:
Sounds alot like todays world.
Yes it does. But according to Romans 1:18-22 it says the teachers are the ones who have suppressed the Truth IN unrighteousness, and have exchanged the Truth for a lie.
The reason we have so much sin, is this is what the parents have allowed, because the teachers have given hearty approval to their unrighteousness. Verse 32.
But you are asking about sin.
The lists are long and many that constitute specific sins, but the most dreadful of all of these is Blasphemy of the Spirit. Our Father's Spirit. How does one do this? Verse 21 and verse 25. Read them together, not seperate.
Bottom line is sin happens from a fallen countenance. To turn AWAY from the presense of the Father. Genesis 4:6-7. If a person does this, the depraved mind is what God gives to them. How is it depraved? By God removing it from His presense. Think of it as walking along with God, and when you look beside you, God is not there. Or, in the case of willful sin, you actually RAN away from God's presense, as Cain did.
So sin is the result of the action taken between the relationship of you and God. When the heart is right with God, sin isn't crouching at the door. You dwell in His presense, and are protected from the evil one. When the heart is not right, the person is overpowered and enslaved by sin. It is the consequence of rebellion.
Yes it does. But according to Romans 1:18-22 it says the teachers are the ones who have suppressed the Truth IN unrighteousness, and have exchanged the Truth for a lie.
The reason we have so much sin, is this is what the parents have allowed, because the teachers have given hearty approval to their unrighteousness. Verse 32.
But you are asking about sin.
The lists are long and many that constitute specific sins, but the most dreadful of all of these is Blasphemy of the Spirit. Our Father's Spirit. How does one do this? Verse 21 and verse 25. Read them together, not seperate.
Bottom line is sin happens from a fallen countenance. To turn AWAY from the presense of the Father. Genesis 4:6-7. If a person does this, the depraved mind is what God gives to them. How is it depraved? By God removing it from His presense. Think of it as walking along with God, and when you look beside you, God is not there. Or, in the case of willful sin, you actually RAN away from God's presense, as Cain did.
So sin is the result of the action taken between the relationship of you and God. When the heart is right with God, sin isn't crouching at the door. You dwell in His presense, and are protected from the evil one. When the heart is not right, the person is overpowered and enslaved by sin. It is the consequence of rebellion.
I knew you would make some good points but they are what many do not want to acknowledge yet they insist they walk with God. It is sometimes hard to stomach but we need to stick to Biblical truth.
Verse 21 and 25 seem very clear on the subject but I am sure many will reject what makes sense.
I knew you would make some good points but they are what many do not want to acknowledge yet they insist they walk with God. It is sometimes hard to stomach but we need to stick to Biblical truth.
Verse 21 and 25 seem very clear on the subject but I am sure many will reject what makes sense.
Do you wish to touch on anther list?
The problem is not sin sir. The problem is the holiness of God. This is the major point of contention. We are now at the point where even the Holiness of God is subject to interpretation. It truly isnt a matter of what is sinful anymore, but if man is as holy as God.
I hear what your saying about sin, and especially what the scriptures say about it.
The only way to overcome sin is to believe in JESUS CHRIST and become born of the water and of the SPIRIT. Then, over time, grow in grace and in the knowledge of the LORD. Walk in the SPIRIT.
The Chrisitan community needs to overcome disunity and misunderstandings of the scriptures. They exhibit a high degree of carnal mindedness, just as described concerning the Church at Corinth, in 1Cor. But it is far worse today than it ever was in the 1st century Corinthian Church. It is amazing to me that so many Church leaders with so much education, fail to understand the need for a doctrinally sound and united Church. Of course they believe their own doctrines are sound. Which is often why they choose to remain divided.
But as the scripture says, "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine..."
GOD is willing to help us overcome sin. But we must do things His way. The kingdom of GOD is not a democracy. That's where so many stumble.
Our focus needs to be on what JESUS told us...his commandments.
LOVE.
Where there is LOVE, there is no need for the law, for there is nothing evil to restrain.
Love your neighbor as yourself. THAT is what you and me and everyone else NEEDS to focus on. Who is your neighbor? MANKIND. God's CREATION.
It's not so difficult.
Religion makes it difficult and takes the focus AWAY from what the focus should be.
AGain..
WHERE LOVE IS... there is NO NEED for the LAW.
Think about it.
If you don't understand what I'm saying... by all means carry on with your focus on sin sin sin sin and more sin. And law law law law....
But it's far clearer and easy to understand and FOLLOW if you just follow Jesus' instructions.
Take the chains and shackles off and stop being slaves to sin and the law... and instead, change your focus to LOVE.
Before some person comes on saying some nonsense about flowers and hippies and whatever nonsense ya want to spew.
Let's not forget... GOD IS LOVE.
IS.LOVE.
LOVE is the MOST POWERFUL thing in this universe.
LOVE is the ONLY thing that will CHANGE this world.
LOVE is what CREATED THE UNIVERSE.
LOVE is what HUNG ON THE CROSS FOR YOU AND ME.
GOD IS LOVE.
THE MOST POWERFUL THING.
LOVE is the FULFILLMENT of the law.
Where there is LOVE, there is NO EVIL (sin) to RESTRAIN.
FOCUS on LOVE and in ACTUALITY, brothers and sisters... you are FOCUSING ON GOD.
Pretty neat, huh?? How wonderful is that??
I knew you would make some good points but they are what many do not want to acknowledge yet they insist they walk with God. It is sometimes hard to stomach but we need to stick to Biblical truth.
Verse 21 and 25 seem very clear on the subject but I am sure many will reject what makes sense.
Do you wish to touch on anther list?
Depends on the context the sin is being drawn from. Take what Jesus said for example:
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Now why would Jesus go so far as to say this? He is trying to tell us something we need to hear? Of course He is. It is confirming what the heart is looking to. If the world, then worldly fleshly things are what drives the man. If God, then only the Spiritual things of God. How do I know this? It was confirmed by Peter:
But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children;
Who is Peter talking about? The unbeliever, or the false believer? Look to me like a false believer, or rather hypocrites.
Now, back to Jesus,,,to whom was HE talking to and about? The whole world, or those to whom He was sent.
Let us see:
When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him.
The focus should not be so much on the sin we commit, or even lists, but rather how to attain to a spiritual level where this question is not raised. A higher lever of understanding and wisdom, given only by the Spirit of Truth.
We all walk around lost. We know that we are called of God, for only those God calls are willing to come to Him. But remember, there were millions upon millions to whom God has called. From the Israelites of old, to the Christians today. We hear the calling, and come forward. We call upon the Name of His Son Jesus the risen Christ, but then stop.
We stop growing, we stop submitting to His Holiness and Kingship, and we turn back to the world. Like Paul said, it is a war. But we cannot be complacent in this war, because there is more at stake than our souls. The souls of our children, and their children, etc, are also at stake. When we live a Godly life, our children are rooted in Godliness. Even though, like myself, they may leave it, they can come back, because the root was firmly planted.
But for countless millions, they never seek Him out. They are content with their churches, and their leaders, and their lives. They feel that although they may tithe, this constitutes charity. They feel that since they relinquish a day, or even an hour or two for God, that this is all that is required.
They do not talk about God. They do not submit to God, nor Honor Him. They, instead, rally for men and women in their elections. They rally around their troops, and their flags, and their money. Well, during all this rallying, where is God?
Sports figures apply their gifts to God, as is God wants them to bash each other's heads in? Well, what if they lose? Was their faith not strong enough for them to win? Everyone always applys everything to God, good or bad, in their lives, but forget that their LIFE is what God demands.
His ways become our ways. His thoughts become our thoughts. His actions become our actions.
We seek knowledge and forget to seek understanding with this knowledge, which gives birth to Wisdom, which is a Gift from Him.
But the divisions come from lack of Wisdom, and His people are destroyed or enslaved, sadly to their lusts which give birth to sin.
But is this the faults of the people, or the leaders who have done the unspeakable Romans 1 thing. They suppressed the knowledge they know, or has been given to them for worldy gain IN unrighteousness.
Sorry for the rant. I am just typing as I go, and I am looking in my own mirror while doing it.
Last edited by HotinAZ; 02-17-2010 at 07:50 PM..
Reason: changed the word teachers for believer in red
Depends on the context the sin is being drawn from. Take what Jesus said for example:
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Now why would Jesus go so far as to say this? He is trying to tell us something we need to hear? Of course He is. It is confirming what the heart is looking to. If the world, then worldly fleshly things are what drives the man. If God, then only the Spiritual things of God. How do I know this? It was confirmed by Peter:
But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children;
Who is Peter talking about? The unbeliever, or the false believer? Look to me like a false believer, or rather hypocrites.
Now, back to Jesus,,,to whom was HE talking to and about? The whole world, or those to whom He was sent.
Let us see:
When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him.
The focus should not be so much on the sin we commit, or even lists, but rather how to attain to a spiritual level where this question is not raised. A higher lever of understanding and wisdom, given only by the Spirit of Truth.
We all walk around lost. We know that we are called of God, for only those God calls are willing to come to Him. But remember, there were millions upon millions to whom God has called. From the Israelites of old, to the Christians today. We hear the calling, and come forward. We call upon the Name of His Son Jesus the risen Christ, but then stop.
We stop growing, we stop submitting to His Holiness and Kingship, and we turn back to the world. Like Paul said, it is a war. But we cannot be complacent in this war, because there is more at stake than our souls. The souls of our children, and their children, etc, are also at stake. When we live a Godly life, our children are rooted in Godliness. Even though, like myself, they may leave it, they can come back, because the root was firmly planted.
But for countless millions, they never seek Him out. They are content with their churches, and their leaders, and their lives. They feel that although they may tithe, this constitutes charity. They feel that since they relinquish a day, or even an hour or two for God, that this is all that is required.
They do not talk about God. They do not submit to God, nor Honor Him. They, instead, rally for men and women in their elections. They rally around their troops, and their flags, and their money. Well, during all this rallying, where is God?
Sports figures apply their gifts to God, as is God wants them to bash each other's heads in? Well, what if they lose? Was their faith not strong enough for them to win? Everyone always applys everything to God, good or bad, in their lives, but forget that their LIFE is what God demands.
His ways become our ways. His thoughts become our thoughts. His actions become our actions.
We seek knowledge and forget to seek understanding with this knowledge, which gives birth to Wisdom, which is a Gift from Him.
But the divisions come from lack of Wisdom, and His people are destroyed or enslaved, sadly to their lusts which give birth to sin.
But is this the faults of the people, or the leaders who have done the unspeakable Romans 1 thing. They suppressed the knowledge they know, or has been given to them for worldy gain IN unrighteousness.
Sorry for the rant. I am just typing as I go, and I am looking in my own mirror while doing it.
This is one of the finest sermons I've ever heard in my life. It should be preached from all the pulpits. Praise the LORD!
sin......the law is given to reveal sin. it is our teacher as the apostle Paul wrote. I am a sinner and will continue to sin even though my heart is to live in His love and not to sin. He does give me the grace to live a holier life as I look to Him who is perfect and is full of a love that is beyond that of the world. as I get older I find that He is changing me and drawing me closer to Him. strange as it may be, the list for sin gets bigger. I find things that I was able to do I can no longer do, though to others it is not sin, as it was the same for me. sin is living a life outside of the relationship we have with the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. the verse that has always hit me is Romans 14:23...and whatever is not from faith is sin. this has been a wow for me. I need to hear the Lord and live as I hear Him.
In Psalm 51 verse 6 it says "Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom".
Truth is nothing short of the reality of God in our lives .
19“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” 21Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”. John 4 .
Just like the samaritan woman we get caught up into believing truth is a place a formula a teaching a doctrine , but truth is the reality of Christ in you and which is also the unity of the body of Christ .
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