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Since 1948 there has been a partial regathering of Israel in a state of unbelief back into the land that was promised to Abraham and his descendents. This is in preparation for the soon to come Tribulational judgment that is to bring the Jews to the knowledge that Jesus is the Messiah that they rejected at His first coming. When Jesus Christ returns at the second advent, He will fully restore Israel to the land. Once the church has been raptured, the Tribulation will begin. The fact that Israel now exists as a nation since 1948 means that the rapture is near.
There are a number of scripture passages that show that modern Israel was prophesied. For example, Ezekiel 20:33-38; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Ezekiel 36:24-28 all refer to modern day Israel.
To explain those passages I have provided the following link. It is 19 pages long and starts off by giving various views as to the significance of modern day Israel. By page 12 it starts explaining the passages.
For those reading this who understand that the rapture of the church is pre-Tribulational, the information on these links should be of interest to you.
The church is Not spiritual Israel. God has different programs for the church and Israel. God is not done with the Jews. The promises that He made to Abraham and his descendents in the Abrahamic, Palestinian, Davidic, and the New Covenant remain to be fulfilled at Christ's Second Advent. In preparation for the full and final restoratation of Israel to the land at His return, He has first brought some of the Jews back into the land in unbelief as of the estabishment of modern day Israel in 1948. In addition to the material provided in the original post, I am posting the following link as well.
Israel regathered should be of intense interest to all believers as there are Biblical prophecies that foretold of this happening, and there are a number of passages which attest to this, as provided in the first post.
We are near the end of the dispensation of the Church age. It will terminate with the rapture of the Church. Then the Tribulation which is the time of Jacobs Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7) will begin. The seven years which yet belong to the age of Israel is that Tribulation. As a result of the events and judgments of that terrible time Israel will turn back to the Lord and He will deliver Jerusalem from the armies of the antichrist and effect the full restoration of Israel in fulfillment of His promises to them.
The church is Not spiritual Israel. God has different programs for the church and Israel. God is not done with the Jews. The promises that He made to Abraham and his descendents in the Abrahamic, Palestinian, Davidic, and the New Covenant remain to be fulfilled at Christ's Second Advent. In preparation for the full and final restoratation of Israel to the land at His return, He has first brought some of the Jews back into the land in unbelief as of the estabishment of modern day Israel in 1948. In addition to the material provided in the original post, I am posting the following link as well.
Israel regathered should be of intense interest to all believers as there are Biblical prophecies that foretold of this happening, and there are a number of passages which attest to this, as provided in the first post. .
This is excellent, Mike, and I have always held the dispensational view. The only thing of which I'm not certain is the year 1948 vs. Israel's regathering to the original land promise - much of which they got back in the last war (and were being forced to move out of because of Sharon). So
I guess my question is: Is Modern Israel completely re-established and settled in the geographics which the Lord originally promised them?
This is excellent, Mike, and I have always held the dispensational view. The only thing of which I'm not certain is the year 1948 vs. Israel's regathering to the original land promise - much of which they got back in the last war (and were being forced to move out of because of Sharon). So
I guess my question is: Is Modern Israel completely re-established and settled in the geographics which the Lord originally promised them?
Israel is only partially re-established until the Lord returns and brings All the Jews back into the land. Also, until Christ returns, Israel is in possession of only a fraction of the total land that has been promised to them. Genesis 15:18-21 gives the dimensions of the land that God will give to Israel. But the current nation of Israel will not be destroyed, and the Jews will not be driven out. This is the first phase of the fulfillment of God's promise to fully restore Israel. 1948 is the year that Israel was re-established. In Isaiah 66:8 Isaiah asks 'Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once?' That officially happened on May 14, 1948.
A passage concerning modern day Israel is Zechariah 12:2-3. ''Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around... 3) ''And it will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured...'' Israel is a point of contention among the nations of the world today. Once the church has been raptured and the Tribulation begins, the end result at the end of those 7 years will be the gathering of the nations against Israel for the Armegeddon campaign from which Israel will be rescued by the return of Christ who will destroy those nations that rose up against it.
A key point to remember is that Israel must first be gathered back into the land in unbelief, and then as a result of the events of the Tribulation Israel must nationally recognize the Messiah and call out for Him before the Lord will return at the Second Advent. Matthew 23:37-39.
Again, excellent scriptual references. Who are among your favorite eschatological writers (gone and presnet)?
Thank you. What I know of eschatology comes from Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer who founded Dallas Theological Seminary and wrote the 8 volume 'Systematic Theology'; Dr. John F. Walvoord who succeeded Dr. Chafer as president of Dallas Theological Seminary and who was the author of 'Major Bible Prophecies'; and Robert B.Thieme Jr. who was pastor of Berachah Church for over 50 years in Houston TX. and who graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary. I don't know who is writing what about eschatology these days. I know that Hal Lindsey studied under Robert B. Thieme Jr. and also attended Dallas Theological Seminary, but I haven't really read his books.
One of the pastors I study under is Mike Smith who is pastor of Country Bible Church in Brenham TX. He is the one whose link I provided concerning 'Israel Regathered' on the original post on this thread. It is six hours of very interesting and informative study on Israel.
Since 1948 there has been a partial regathering of Israel in a state of unbelief back into the land that was promised to Abraham and his descendents. This is in preparation for the soon to come Tribulational judgment that is to bring the Jews to the knowledge that Jesus is the Messiah that they rejected at His first coming. When Jesus Christ returns at the second advent, He will fully restore Israel to the land. Once the church has been raptured, the Tribulation will begin. The fact that Israel now exists as a nation since 1948 means that the rapture is near.
There are a number of scripture passages that show that modern Israel was prophesied. For example, Ezekiel 20:33-38; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Ezekiel 36:24-28 all refer to modern day Israel.
To explain those passages I have provided the following link. It is 19 pages long and starts off by giving various views as to the significance of modern day Israel. By page 12 it starts explaining the passages.
For those reading this who understand that the rapture of the church is pre-Tribulational, the information on these links should be of interest to you.
Here are the scriptures:
Ezekiel 20
33As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 22
17 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. 19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: 'Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. 21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.' "
Ezekiel 36
24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
The problem with the scriptures you mentioned is that they were not written to an audience in the 21st century, they were written to an audience in the time of Ezekiel who were currently in exile in Babylon. Any Jew reading these prophecies would have immediately understood that they were the subject since they had just had their temple and city (Jerusalem) destroyed by Nebuchadnezzer and were taken away from their city into exile.
These were messages of hope to all those currently in exile. If God meant this as a prophecy for a audience thousands of years away, He would have said so clearly, but God didn't. When He stated He would gather them from the nations they were scattered to, no Jew would have ever thought that the 21st century was in mind. They were the ones that needed encouragement and hope as they were in exile. If God had the 21st century in mind, then Israel currently in exile was not the audience and had no hope in being restored to their homeland until 2500 years later.
Anyone hearing these prophecies would have understood them to be for them who heard it first. Their is absolutely no grammatical reason for the prophecies of Ezekiel to be for anyone but for Israel in the Babylonian exile. The 21st century is not in view here. If it was then it is totally ignoring the fact that Israel was restored to her homeland within 70 years of being exiled. God stated clearly He would restore them and history is clear that they were restored back to their homeland under the rule of Cyrus of the Medo-Persian empire when He conquered Babylon in 538-539 B.C.(I believe 458 B.C. but nonetheless) and issued the 1st decree to restore Jerusalem and the temple.
To believe these prophecies to refer to 1948 and beyond is to ignore 1) The audience that first heard it (those in exile) and 2) That history is clear that Israel was restored after they were in exile.
We cannot ignore the audience who the prophecies were given to. If we do they meant absolutely nothing to those who heard them since they were for the 21st century and not a message of hope. If you were alive during the Babylonian exile, you would have immediately rejoiced that God would restore you to your homeland when you heard the prophecies of Ezekiel. They were a message of hope and encouragement to the exiles.
If they were for the 21st century, then we cannot trust God in what He says since everything in these prophecies points to a fulfillment for those in Babylon and they really were not. He was ignoring those who first heard them in favor of an audience 2500 years away when nothing in them ever suggests otherwise.
Ezekiel 20
33As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 22
17 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. 19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: 'Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. 21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.' "
Ezekiel 36
24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
The problem with the scriptures you mentioned is that they were not written to an audience in the 21st century, they were written to an audience in the time of Ezekiel who were currently in exile in Babylon. Any Jew reading these prophecies would have immediately understood that they were the subject since they had just had their temple and city (Jerusalem) destroyed by Nebuchadnezzer and were taken away from their city into exile.
These were messages of hope to all those currently in exile. If God meant this as a prophecy for a audience thousands of years away, He would have said so clearly, but God didn't. When He stated He would gather them from the nations they were scattered to, no Jew would have ever thought that the 21st century was in mind. They were the ones that needed encouragement and hope as they were in exile. If God had the 21st century in mind, then Israel currently in exile was not the audience and had no hope in being restored to their homeland until 2500 years later.
Anyone hearing these prophecies would have understood them to be for them who heard it first. Their is absolutely no grammatical reason for the prophecies of Ezekiel to be for anyone but for Israel in the Babylonian exile. The 21st century is not in view here. If it was then it is totally ignoring the fact that Israel was restored to her homeland within 70 years of being exiled. God stated clearly He would restore them and history is clear that they were restored back to their homeland under the rule of Cyrus of the Medo-Persian empire when He conquered Babylon in 538-539 B.C.(I believe 458 B.C. but nonetheless) and issued the 1st decree to restore Jerusalem and the temple.
To believe these prophecies to refer to 1948 and beyond is to ignore 1) The audience that first heard it (those in exile) and 2) That history is clear that Israel was restored after they were in exile.
We cannot ignore the audience who the prophecies were given to. If we do they meant absolutely nothing to those who heard them since they were for the 21st century and not a message of hope. If you were alive during the Babylonian exile, you would have immediately rejoiced that God would restore you to your homeland when you heard the prophecies of Ezekiel. They were a message of hope and encouragement to the exiles.
If they were for the 21st century, then we cannot trust God in what He says since everything in these prophecies points to a fulfillment for those in Babylon and they really were not. He was ignoring those who first heard them in favor of an audience 2500 years away when nothing in them ever suggests otherwise.
Israel was again dispersed in A.D. 70 and remained under dispersion (and in large part still does) until 1948. When Christ returns at the second advent He returns to an already existing nation Israel which will as a result of the events amd the judgments of the Tribulation, realize that He is the Messiah that they rejected at His first advent. When He returns He will FULLY restore Israel to the land.
The prophecies mentioned in this thread concern modern day Israel and pave the way for the final and full restoration of the Jews to the land when Christ returns.
For Israel, there are prophecies yet to be fulfilled when Christ returns. And the fact that modern day Israel exists was prophesied.
You may not being interested in listening to the six hours of audio lessons in the original post, but I would recommend it.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-22-2010 at 07:52 PM..
Israel was again dispersed in A.D. 70 and remained under dispersion (and in large part still does) until 1948. When Christ returns at the second advent He returns to an already existing nation Israel which will as a result of the events amd the judgments of the Tribulation, realize that He is the Messiah that they rejected at His first advent. When He returns He will FULLY restore Israel to the land.
The prophecies mentioned in this thread concern modern day Israel and pave the way for the final and full restoration of the Jews to the land when Christ returns.
For Israel, there are prophecies yet to be fulfilled when Christ returns. And the fact that modern day Israel exists was prophesied.
You may not being interested in listening to the six hours of audio lessons in the original post, but I would recommend it.
Hi Mike555,
I understand your position as well as what is most likely contained in the audio lessons. I understand that ethnic Israel still exists but must disagree with your premise.
The scriptures you quoted were not given to the 21st century. They were given to an audience in Ezekiel's time who were currently in exile in Babylon. We agree that the prophecies do predict that Israel would be restored back to their homeland, my disagreement is with what restoration was spoken of.
The prophecies were clearly given in Ezekiel's time during the Babylonian exile and not in the 20th century before 1948. In the natural flow of history the scriptures in Ezekiel speak of a restoration that must clearly be for the audience that originally heard it, not one 2500 years away.
If it was, then the Jews currently in exile were mistaken in their hope of being restored once they heard the prophecies and the prophecies would totally ignore the fulfillment that historically happened to the audience of Ezekiel during the Babylonian exile.
Is there any reason whatsoever for the original audience of Ezekiel to believe that the prophecies they were hearing were for an audience 2500 years away?
In other words, if you were a Jew currently in exile in Babylon, would there be anything in the prophecies you quoted to suggest that they were for a generation thousands of years away and not for you who just heard them?
Ezekiel 20
33As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 22
17 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. 19 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: 'Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20 As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. 21 I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22 As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.' "
Ezekiel 36
24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
The problem with the scriptures you mentioned is that they were not written to an audience in the 21st century, they were written to an audience in the time of Ezekiel who were currently in exile in Babylon. Any Jew reading these prophecies would have immediately understood that they were the subject since they had just had their temple and city (Jerusalem) destroyed by Nebuchadnezzer and were taken away from their city into exile.
These were messages of hope to all those currently in exile. If God meant this as a prophecy for a audience thousands of years away, He would have said so clearly, but God didn't. When He stated He would gather them from the nations they were scattered to, no Jew would have ever thought that the 21st century was in mind. They were the ones that needed encouragement and hope as they were in exile. If God had the 21st century in mind, then Israel currently in exile was not the audience and had no hope in being restored to their homeland until 2500 years later.
Anyone hearing these prophecies would have understood them to be for them who heard it first. Their is absolutely no grammatical reason for the prophecies of Ezekiel to be for anyone but for Israel in the Babylonian exile. The 21st century is not in view here. If it was then it is totally ignoring the fact that Israel was restored to her homeland within 70 years of being exiled. God stated clearly He would restore them and history is clear that they were restored back to their homeland under the rule of Cyrus of the Medo-Persian empire when He conquered Babylon in 538-539 B.C.(I believe 458 B.C. but nonetheless) and issued the 1st decree to restore Jerusalem and the temple.
To believe these prophecies to refer to 1948 and beyond is to ignore 1) The audience that first heard it (those in exile) and 2) That history is clear that Israel was restored after they were in exile.
We cannot ignore the audience who the prophecies were given to. If we do they meant absolutely nothing to those who heard them since they were for the 21st century and not a message of hope. If you were alive during the Babylonian exile, you would have immediately rejoiced that God would restore you to your homeland when you heard the prophecies of Ezekiel. They were a message of hope and encouragement to the exiles.
If they were for the 21st century, then we cannot trust God in what He says since everything in these prophecies points to a fulfillment for those in Babylon and they really were not. He was ignoring those who first heard them in favor of an audience 2500 years away when nothing in them ever suggests otherwise.
I want to provide a better answer for this poster than I originally did so I am addressing this again.
It is an erroneous asumption to conclude that because prophesies of Israel's return to the land were given at the time of their current (as of that time) dispersion into captivity in Babylon, that those prophesies must refer to their subsequent restoration relative to that first dispersal only.
Many prophesies have both a near term and a far term view. One example is a prophecy given in Isaiah 61:1-2 and which was read by Jesus from the book of Isaiah when He stood before those gathered in the synagogue as recorded in Luke 4:18-19 ''The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind. To set free those who are downtrodden. 19) To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.''
This was fulfilled by Jesus at His first advent. But Jesus did not read the rest of the prophecy. The last half of Isaiah 61:2 says '...and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn.''
This last half of the prophecy is to be fulfilled at the Lord's second Advent. The first and second part of the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1-2 is separated by thousands of years.
Some of the prophesies concerning Israels return to the land refer to their initial dispersion, while other prophecies refer to their return to the land after their second dispersal, which is still in effect. The initial stage of this final regathering is occurring right now and began in 1948. The end stage of this final regathering will occur when Christ returns.
To go into more detail about this, I have provided another link.
This link provides excellent information which should help people to understand the issue regarding modern day Israel and it's relation to and fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
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