How'd you come to believe in the salvation of all? (Leviticus, punishment)

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Flaminghedge

Obviously if you don't believe this, then this thread is not for you, but for those that do:

What happened that led you to discover this truth?
and
What happened afterward when you tried to tell people?

For me, I was just examining small-time, unimportant doctrines when I stumbled across a SDA site. I don't agree with them about anything now, but they convinced me that there wasn't a hell, and that the wicked would be destroyed. Then I had to look into various passages that "supported" hell. One of these was the Lazarus and the rich man parable. After that I found L Ray Smith's article explaining the parable, and then stumbled on more of his material. That's how I found out anyhow.

After that, when I tried sharing with several of my friends, I was called in and told to keep quiet many times. I'm even forbidden from talking to certain people as they are "weak in the faith" and I'd lead them astray.

I haven't tried to share UR with many people in real life, there is just never an opportunity. Strangely enough I suspect the father (RC) at the church we go to is UR... God works in mysterious ways.

L. Ray Smith's site was instrumental in helping me come to understand as well. I think the first site I actually found was this one though:

The Good News About God - Telling the Truth and Exposing Lies

It has some strange (maybe true?) conspiracy ideas on it, but it has alot of good info about UR too.

Other sites that have good info:

tentmaker.org
Merciful Truth
Martin Zender's site

Martin Zender has a cool testimony/blog here of his adventures as he travelled around the country sharing the good news with people. Definitely recommended reading for a different perspective.

[Miss Blue]

I never realized that the UR's are hated so much that many are in the closet..How very sad..all because of a doctrine that has nothing to do with our salvation..I wonder how many Christian brothers and sisters right here in my own corner of the Fundamental Bible belt are "in the closet"..I used to be there because of some of my beliefs which according to some are also "Lies straight from Hell"..

Anyway thank you all for these testimonies and the peek into your life beyond these debates

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Miss Blue

I never realized that the UR's are hated so much that many are in the closet..How very sad..all because of a doctrine that has nothing to do with our salvation..I wonder how many Christian brothers and sisters right here in my own corner of the Fundamental Bible belt are "in the closet"..I used to be there because of some of my beliefs which according to some are also "Lies straight from Hell"..

Anyway thank you all for these testimonies and the peek into your life beyond these debates

Thanks for your kind comments Miss Blue.

Sharing your beliefs is a very personal thing. I tell you I had to think twice before I pushed submit on my testimony. It can be difficult, especially when your beliefs are controversial and not well understood by others. You put yourself out on the line, and some people will use that against you.

Already in another thread people are pointing to the testimonys here as proof that UR's "have unbelief in God's word", "have rejected God", "made false oaths", and "have abandoned the truth and are going to hell". Its tough when people call you deceived by Satan, or worse - they suggest you are personal agents of Satan. Its tough to face that much hate directed at you personally. Those making the accusations, never consider that perhaps it is themselves who have been deceived.

This is just an anonymous message board, its easy here to be bold, but not so easy in real life.

The reality is: when I believed in eternal hell, I didn't have the truth. I didn't have faith in God, I was worried that I would fail and put myself in hell - I didn't trust that God could do it. Now my faith and trust are in God, my love has only increased - I trust that God is good and He is in control. God is working in me.

[Flaminghedge]

Originally Posted by legoman

Already in another thread people are pointing to the testimonys here as proof that UR's "have unbelief in God's word", "have rejected God", "made false oaths", and "have abandoned the truth and are going to hell". Its tough when people call you deceived by Satan, or worse - they suggest you are personal agents of Satan. Its tough to face that much hate directed at you personally. Those making the accusations, never consider that perhaps it is themselves who have been deceived.

Really? They're pointing to this thread? I don't see how that works.

It is tough to have hate directed at you personally, but I've always taken comfort in the fact that we are told we are going to be hated and that we’d suffer for Christ’s sake.

[Ironmaw1776]

It is interesting to see how many people think that believing in the doctrine of hell and everlasting torture is paramount to ones own salvation. ET is a religious doctrine of hell, if you ask me. And it is usually bound together hand in had with legalism. One person looking at another and condemning/cursing them to the most heinous reality imaginable. They think that its not condemnation or judgment because that is what they believe the bible teaches and they are only "speaking the word of God". The pharisees believed the same thing and used the same excuses for their living in judgment and condemnation over the people in their times. They believed they were teaching Gods own truth from his word. It is really not so big of a surprise when you really think about it ...

The leaven of the pharisees ...

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

It is interesting to see how many people think that believing in the doctrine of hell and everlasting torture is paramount to ones own salvation. ET is a religious doctrine of hell, if you ask me. And it is usually bound together hand in had with legalism. One person looking at another and condemning/cursing them to the most heinous reality imaginable. They think that its not condemnation or judgment because that is what they believe the bible teaches and they are only "speaking the word of God". The pharisees believed the same thing and used the same excuses for their living in judgment and condemnation over the people in their times. They believed they were teaching Gods own truth from his word. It is really not so big of a surprise when you really think about it ...

The leaven of the pharisees ...

Amen Ironmaw . Good post .

[Flaminghedge]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

It is interesting to see how many people think that believing in the doctrine of hell and everlasting torture is paramount to ones own salvation. ET is a religious doctrine of hell, if you ask me. And it is usually bound together hand in had with legalism. One person looking at another and condemning/cursing them to the most heinous reality imaginable. They think that its not condemnation or judgment because that is what they believe the bible teaches and they are only "speaking the word of God". The pharisees believed the same thing and used the same excuses for their living in judgment and condemnation over the people in their times. They believed they were teaching Gods own truth from his word. It is really not so big of a surprise when you really think about it ...

The leaven of the pharisees ...

I've never heard an ET response on this verse have you guys? (will style!)

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

Why would anyone preach hell in light of this verse? Why did John write this verse if there was a hell?

Basically, there is NO FEAR IN LOVE
and
LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR
and
FEAR INVOLVES TORMENT
and
HE WHO FEARS IS NOT PERFECT IN LOVE

Altogether, this would be super confusing if:
GOD TORMENTED PEOPLE
and
GOD CAUSED PEOPLE TO FEAR TORMENT
and
PEOPLE ARE EXPECTED TO BE IN GOD'S LOVE DESPITE TORMENT

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by Flaminghedge

I've never heard an ET response on this verse have you guys? (will style!)

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

Why would anyone preach hell in light of this verse? Why did John write this verse if there was a hell?

Basically, there is NO FEAR IN LOVE
and
LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR
and
FEAR INVOLVES TORMENT
and
HE WHO FEARS IS NOT PERFECT IN LOVE

Altogether, this would be super confusing if:
GOD TORMENTED PEOPLE
and
GOD CAUSED PEOPLE TO FEAR TORMENT
and
PEOPLE ARE EXPECTED TO BE IN GOD'S LOVE DESPITE TORMENT

Excellent point. Sounds like a good thread about torment.

[Flaminghedge]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

Excellent point. Sounds like a good thread about torment.

Good idea, I might start one up about this after a couple of the old ones die down.

BTW legoman, your thread about the verses that led you to believe in UR got totally hijacked and has been off topic for a while. I keep going back to it to see if it's gotten off of the coexist stuff, but it's always the same.

[Phazelwood]

As a young boy I knew there was something good that I could not see with my eyes. My religious upbringing caused me to forget the simplicity of that presence and held me to the letter of the law through contempt and horrors. While I realize many who say God is love mean well as they also believe there is a reality to horrors that God in his loving goodness has created for the unbelievers they are but a walking contradiction.

One influence I had that returned me to the simplicity of Gods love was a scenario I was challenged with during my christianity insanity.

You are in a room with 3 unbelievers, it is a nice gathering, not confrontational, as friends. You are sharing the "good news" of Jesus Christ with the unbelievers. This good news consists of the warning of eternal damnation, of course it is Good News you offer right, you are there aligned with God in the spirit. You say that it is good news that these unbelievers are now faced with the choice to believe before it is too late, they are given this opportunity, for if they were to die in the next second they would burn in hell for all eternity ( My note: or you can cop out and say eternal separation since that makes it sound better)

At that moment one of the unbelievers chokes to death on the food you was eating while you were discussing this. So, I was challenged to speak to the remaining two unbelievers about Good News.

As much as I wanted to twist it around, it really was impossible for me to honestly think of good news. You can continue to speak to the remaining living people but you will be forced to get emotional and increase the pleas of believing before it's too late and avoid suffering like their departed friend. Nothing short of self delusion would cause someone to think they would actually have good news to talk about.

I didn't in that moment flip over to an understanding of just how misunderstood Gods love actually is by what I was influenced to believe was true, but it was a huge factor in understanding what GOOD NEWS really is.

Good news is not anyone separated from God for eternity, Good news is not "not all will be saved" that is pathetic news.