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Old 02-21-2010, 10:17 PM
 
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Preterism hinges on taking time words at face value like, at hand and soon, so where it says that Satan is bound a thousand years and the saints reign with Christ a thousand years, why is it taken as a short time and not a thousand years.

Even though I do believe that Revelation depicts a judgment of the Jews that was prophecied by Jesus and in Daniel - I can not shake the idea that there is more to it than that, and that the thousand years is in fact thousands of years (I have read that the greek word used for thousand is plural and so denotes thousands.
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,842,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Preterism hinges on taking time words at face value like, at hand and soon, so where it says that Satan is bound a thousand years and the saints reign with Christ a thousand years, why is it taken as a short time and not a thousand years.

Even though I do believe that Revelation depicts a judgment of the Jews that was prophecied by Jesus and in Daniel - I can not shake the idea that there is more to it than that, and that the thousand years is in fact thousands of years (I have read that the greek word used for thousand is plural and so denotes thousands.
Time words taken at face value are those where a person (Jesus, John...) states they are coming soon. Preterists take that at face value. Within the revelation there is much symbolism so there is no reason to hold fast to the idea of 1000 years or 1000's of years as it is most likely symbolic and not duration specific.

Jesus is quoted in the last chapter of Revelation saying "“Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." Do we say that he meant soon? or not?

There are three thousand year periods mentioned (or are they one?):
Rev. 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Rev. 20:5 (The rest of thedead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Rev. 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison.

Are all those literal? How do you view Revelation? As a revelation and a vision or as a literal account of what would literally happen. I don't see how you can pick or choose.

To me either the vision portion is literal or it isn't. I believe it is a vision in prophetic language. I believe it was fulfilled during the destruction of Jerusalem because the words of Jesus to them that he would come soon carries more weight than a vision of 1000 years.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Fort Myers
28 posts, read 48,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
To me either the vision portion is literal or it isn't. I believe it is a vision in prophetic language. I believe it was fulfilled during the destruction of Jerusalem because the words of Jesus to them that he would come soon carries more weight than a vision of 1000 years.
Amen!
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:08 AM
 
187 posts, read 250,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Preterism hinges on taking time words at face value like, at hand and soon, so where it says that Satan is bound a thousand years and the saints reign with Christ a thousand years, why is it taken as a short time and not a thousand years.

Even though I do believe that Revelation depicts a judgment of the Jews that was prophecied by Jesus and in Daniel - I can not shake the idea that there is more to it than that, and that the thousand years is in fact thousands of years (I have read that the greek word used for thousand is plural and so denotes thousands.
Yes...do consider the whole of Revelation 20:1-10. I find it funny that anyone would say yes the chain, keys and dragon are figurative but the thousand years has to be literal.

God is the god of the cattle on 1000 hills. What about hill #1007?

God is faithful for 1000 generations. Does God cease being faithful after 40,000 years?

It's a mistake to view the term 1000 in a quantitative manner in Revelation 20. It is speaking of a quality of time.

Take the Pepsi challenge...Look throughout the whole Bible at the term thousand and how it is used. Especially in the poetic sections of scripture.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:36 AM
 
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Coming "soon", at the return of Jesus Christ to reign over His purchased kingdom in its Sabbath rest of Peace: the fulfillment of Psalm 37:

"Soon, the wicked will be cut off from the earth, and will be no more, indeed, you will search diligently for his place, and it will not be".
Quote:

[A Psalm] of David.] Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
Psa 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; [so] shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring [it] to pass.
And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

For yet a little while, and the wicked [shall] not [be]: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it [shall] not [be].
But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace...
The wicked generation, whose spiritual father is the devil, will soon pass away, and be no more.
Jesus also tells us about that one generation of evildoers whose chosen "father" is the devil and his lies, and the time of their being "cut off" and "being, no more" -on earth, at all:
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Now the taking away of the wicked at the time of the flood of Noah is the context of those who are "taken away" in Matthew 24. This is not the time of the rapture of the Church, but is the time of the end of the tribulation, when the wicked are taken away, gathered as tares, and cast into the fire of eternal wrath.

Then the earth will know peace, when the King of Glory reigns over it, and that is "soon" coming.


What do man's feeble days add up to individually, in relation to the plan of God,
in His time, to redeem the earth and to cut off all evildoers from it?
-man's days are like a vapor on the earth.
Quote:
Jam 4:14 Whereas ye know not what [shall be] on the morrow. For what [is] your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

Why is God so patient and longsuffering, from man's standpoint, and why has He not already ended the reign of evil on earth?
-because all the seed of Adam must come forth in its pre-appointed season, before the harvest is gathered in, so that there will be fruit enough to gather for the Husbandman's barns.

Quote:
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

His coming is imminent, and His coming is without remedy for the wicked, who will soon be cut off, whose hearts are unclean and vile, rebellious against God their Maker and Savior, and unrepentant.

Quote:
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Quote:
When the time comes to its fullness, then there will be no delay:
Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,842,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Coming "soon", at the return of Jesus Christ to reign over His purchased kingdom in its Sabbath rest of Peace: the fulfillment of Psalm 37:

"Soon, the wicked will be cut off from the earth, and will be no more, indeed, you will search diligently for his place, and it will not be".
The wicked generation, whose spiritual father is the devil, will soon pass away, and be no more.
Jesus also tells us about that one generation of evildoers whose chosen "father" is the devil and his lies, and the time of their being "cut off" and "being, no more" -on earth, at all:
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Now the taking away of the wicked at the time of the flood of Noah is the context of those who are "taken away" in Matthew 24. This is not the time of the rapture of the Church, but is the time of the end of the tribulation, when the wicked are taken away, gathered as tares, and cast into the fire of eternal wrath.

Then the earth will know peace, when the King of Glory reigns over it, and that is "soon" coming.


What do man's feeble days add up to individually, in relation to the plan of God,
in His time, to redeem the earth and to cut off all evildoers from it?
-man's days are like a vapor on the earth.

Why is God so patient and longsuffering, from man's standpoint, and why has He not already ended the reign of evil on earth?
-because all the seed of Adam must come forth in its pre-appointed season, before the harvest is gathered in, so that there will be fruit enough to gather for the Husbandman's barns.


His coming is imminent, and His coming is without remedy for the wicked, who will soon be cut off, whose hearts are unclean and vile, rebellious against God their Maker and Savior, and unrepentant.

All these things were SPOKEN to people. I could see if this were Nostradamus or something but Jesus didn't make predictions. He told people in the first century that he was coming soon, quickly, etc.

You have to totally think Jesus was lying or he was simply predicting something would happen. The generation he spoke to certainly thought he was coming soon. And they got anxious.. which is why Peter records that to God a day is like a thousand years.. so they wouldn't give up hope.

Now is Jesus a diviner? or did he speak the truth?
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:25 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,038,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
All these things were SPOKEN to people. I could see if this were Nostradamus or something but Jesus didn't make predictions. He told people in the first century that he was coming soon, quickly, etc.

You have to totally think Jesus was lying or he was simply predicting something would happen. The generation he spoke to certainly thought he was coming soon. And they got anxious.. which is why Peter records that to God a day is like a thousand years.. so they wouldn't give up hope.

Now is Jesus a diviner? or did he speak the truth?
Jesus is YHWH in the Person of the Word, come in flesh, and YHWH in the Person of the Holy Spirit wrote through the Psalmist, David, that "soon" the wicked would be no more. That was three thousand years ago, and still, "soon", the wicked will be no more on earth, just like Jesus said, when this present wicked generation, the sons of the devil, will all be taken away from the midst of the earth when Jesus comes to reign over the earth for its Sabbath Day of the thousand year days.
What is your life? -a vapor; and like a puff of wind you are here and gone like a puff of wind, in God's cycle of time in this creation; and yes indeed, in God's seventh day Sabbath rest for this present creation, the wicked will all be removed at the return of the Day Star, Himself, to reign in Glory over His purchased kingdom.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:33 AM
 
187 posts, read 250,869 times
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Hey Kat...I think someone doesn't have ears to hear what you are saying.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:55 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,842,356 times
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Originally Posted by psychohmike View Post
Hey Kat...I think someone doesn't have ears to hear what you are saying.
I know... I guess I didn't list the options very clearly.
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:18 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,779,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Preterism hinges on taking time words at face value like, at hand and soon, so where it says that Satan is bound a thousand years and the saints reign with Christ a thousand years, why is it taken as a short time and not a thousand years.

Even though I do believe that Revelation depicts a judgment of the Jews that was prophecied by Jesus and in Daniel - I can not shake the idea that there is more to it than that, and that the thousand years is in fact thousands of years (I have read that the greek word used for thousand is plural and so denotes thousands.
I agree ... I hear and understand the full Preterist argument, but it seems to me that they believe so many things prophesied to be symbolic and not to be taken literally jut because they insist that the few time expressions of soon, at hand, etc. must mean son according to the understanding of humans.

Just as yeshuasavedme points out, time words such as soon and at hand are used by the old testament writers as well when prophesying the destruction of the wicked and the time when there will be no more curse on the earth when God will wipe away all tears and will no longer remember the sins of the nations.



"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind" (Isa. 65:17)



When the new heavens and earth do finally come, the former things of this world and this life will not even be remembered or come to mind. Preterists believe the old heavens and earth represent the Hebrew dispensation of the law, however we all to readily remember the old covenant and the times of the law now days, and they come to mind every time we read the old testament or watch the history channel ...

In my opinion preterism does not answer nearly as many questions as it raises.
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