Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If all will be saved, as Universalism teaches, then that definitely would tickle one's ears. Why worry too much about saving the lost when all will be well in the end?
On the other hand, teaching sound doctrine of an eternal hell of torment for those who die in thier sins is not a doctrine that would tickle one's ears; it is sound Biblical truth.
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry
Any god that cannot save everyone is NOT almighty. For the Almighty is a god that can deliver the salvation of All. For what could turn such a God from His mission? - nothing. So if you want to preach a failed god then be prepared to gain followers of failure. You CANNOT gain those that believe in Universal Salvation for those that truely know it CANNOT depart it.
It gives people false hope, that is the lie, everyone is not going to be saved, that was the Bible teaches. If all are saved what is the need for Jesus, the devil just loves to confuse people with this.
That's like saying: If I am going to pay my bills anyway, why do I need to work? duh!
What I do not understand is that threads on universalism are started by those on both sides of the issue - For all of those who say they do not want to discuss it why do you keep replying or starting threads on it or going into threads that have specifically said they do not want to have a debate????.
Like I said: you can have it. I will not bother to discuss it anymore.
Jesus came to save all, but all are not going accept the free gift of salvation. All are NOT saved, all are not going ask Him to be their Savior. When the false hope is a lie it's a bad thing, this is eternity we're talking about. People who believe this lie do not feel the need for Jesus, they're going to Heaven anyway so what's the need for Jesus, which is a lie, we all need Jesus, this is how is how the devil is using this lie.
Yes, ILNC.....It is a big lie !!
Everyone who holds to this teaching "Universalism" has once held the truth of God's word, yet, because of the truth that God will not save those who reject Him and will be judged according to His word in Revelations and all through the Scripture. .... they too rejected it, who make no conscience of false oaths and turned seeking back to their Egypt till they found something that appeased their appetites they had in Egypt, a bondage to their fears, unbelief in God's word, walking away from the faith God had given them to trust Him and found an untruth another gospel that has ensnared, blinded their hearts, turning themselves back to to beginning of their unbelief !!
Heb.3:12 12. Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
Their testimony bears witness in this thread of their unbelief.....turning to from the Truth to another gospel !!
Luke 9:62
But Jesus said to him, " No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
Luke 14:24 24. 'For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste of my dinner.'"
Heb. 4:1-3 1. Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “ So I swore in My wrath,‘ They shall not enter My rest,’”
Even when Stephen taught, spoke, to the crowds the same as spoken here in this thread by scgraham, yourself, fundmentalist, Finn_Jarber, Gospel of Jesus Christ the same individuals as in Stephen's day rose up against him and look what happen to him..... as we see in this thread !
A great opposition has come against the Truth of God's word. It appeases the appetites of their carnal mind, fleshy desires.
Now if Stephen would have been speaking of the universal teaching the people would not have stoned him, but rally around him !!!
But this great rebellion 'universalism' is against everything taught that is written in God's word. A rebellion has rose in this forum, bringing another gospel, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Stephen faced the same opposition as we see here in this thread, forum, and was stoned to death. The same stones are being thrown by those of universalism....
All the Disciples faced the same opposition.... Peter was crucified up side down on a cross, John the Baptize was beheaded, each one died a dreadful death for the gospel of Christ.
Acts 6:8-15 8. And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people. 9. But some men from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including both Cyrenians and Alexandrians, and some from Cilicia and Asia, rose up and argued with Stephen. 10. But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking. 11. Then they secretly induced men to say, "We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God." 12. And they stirred up the people, the elders and the scribes, and they came up to him and dragged him away and brought him before the Council. 13. They put forward false witnesses who said, "This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the Law; 14. for we have heard him say that this Nazarene, Jesus, will destroy this place and alter the customs which Moses handed down to us." 15. And fixing their gaze on him, all who were sitting in the Council saw his face like the face of an angel.
When they could not answer Stephen's arguments as a disputant, they prosecuted him as a criminal, and brought false witnesses against him. And it is next to a miracle of providence, that no greater number of religious persons have been murdered in the world, by the way of perjury and pretence of law, when so many thousands hate them, who make no conscience of false oaths. Wisdom and holiness make a man's face to shine, yet will not secure men from being treated badly. What shall we say of man, a rational being, yet attempting to uphold a religious system by false witness and murder! And this has been done in numberless instances. But the blame rests not so much upon the understanding, as upon the heart of a fallen creature, which is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Yet the servant of the Lord, possessing a clear conscience, cheerful hope, and Divine consolations, may smile in the midst of danger and death. Acts 6 Commentary - Stephen falsely accused of blasphemy. - BibleGateway.com
Give heed.... Heb. 2:1-4 1. For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. 2. For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, 3. how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, 4. God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.
Hebrews 3 1. Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2. who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3. For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4. For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5. And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6. but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. 7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “ Today, if you will hear His voice, 8. Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9. Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, ‘They always go astray intheirheart, And they have not known My ways.’ 11. So I swore in My wrath,
‘ They shall not enter My rest.’”
12. Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13. but exhort one another daily, while it is called“Today,”lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15. while it is said: “ Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” 16. For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed,was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17. Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18. And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19. So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Everyone who holds to this teaching "Universalism" has once held the truth of God's word, yet, because of the truth that God will not save those who reject Him and will be judged according to His word in Revelations and all through the Scripture. .... they too rejected it, who make no conscience of false oaths and turned seeking back to their Egypt till they found something that appeased their appetites they had in Egypt, a bondage to their fears, unbelief in God's word, walking away from the faith God had given them to trust Him and found an untruth another gospel that has ensnared, blinded their hearts, turning themselves back to to beginning of their unbelief !!
It is truly amazing that "doctrine" based on fear and torture (eternal torment) is promoting the wrong motives for salvation but you think that loving God and others (which is the rules imposed by Jesus and universalists alike) is a lie from the devil.. Yet you are talking about people who all believe in God, Jesus, the redemption, etc.... Just like most Christians who you believe are not following a lie from the devil...
I asked before what it was about Universal Salvation that would benefit the devil and yet no good reason is given.
So what part of it is from the devil again? Anyone who believes in universal salvation also believes that you (and everyone else) is able to live without being a slave to sin... yet you think that is from the devil?
Quote:
Heb.3:12 12. Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
Their testimony bears witness in this thread of their unbelief.....turning to from the Truth to another gospel !!
So the testimonies of how other came to believe in the salvation of all through the sacrifice of Christ is unbelief? Perhaps you are mistaken? What exactly is unbelief in your mind? It is you who doesn't believe that all will be saved. That is unbelief. Are you saying that if you don't believe in hell then you are an unbeliever? Do you worship God or hell, because that is what universalists DON'T believe in....
Quote:
Luke 9:62
But Jesus said to him, " No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
Luke 14:24 24. 'For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste of my dinner.'"
Heb. 4:1-3 1. Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “ So I swore in My wrath,‘ They shall not enter My rest,’”
Even when Stephen taught, spoke, to the crowds the same as spoken here in this thread by scgraham, yourself, fundmentalist, Finn_Jarber, Gospel of Jesus Christ the same individuals as in Stephen's day rose up against him and look what happen to him..... as we see in this thread !
Are you comparing yourself and what URer say to you with what happened to Stephen? Stephen was trying to spread the NEW gospel and was KILLED.. How does that compare at all?
Quote:
A great opposition has come against the Truth of God's word. It appeases the appetites of their carnal mind, fleshy desires.
As a universalist, I find this offensive. The carnal mind and fleshly desires are what you are FREE from in believing all are saved. It is the carnal mind that tells one they must believe or else. and that they are such GOOD people because they believe while others must suffer because they don't believe... Moderator cut: insult
Quote:
Now if Stephen would have been speaking of the universal teaching the people would not have stoned him, but rally around him !!!
If Stephen were preaching universalism, he would have been following what Jesus taught and later Paul taught. (see the books of Timothy) I personally think he was following Jesus and did teach universalism. And it was the laws of the pharisees that was threatened just like the laws of fundamentalism now. The problem with universalism is that if everyone is saved you can't judge someone according to what you want them to be like. There is no pointing fingers because all are loved by God equally.
Quote:
But this great rebellion 'universalism' is against everything taught that is written in God's word. A rebellion has rose in this forum, bringing another gospel, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
So you don't believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world? Do you believe that God sent his son to die because he wanted to only save a few? or was God's intention to save all? You are saying he didn't save all but where is your proof? If there is so much deviation from Christ's gospel in universal salvation, post scripture in proof... I don't see any that proves Jesus wanted to save only some sin or that God wouldn't save all as he obviously intended.
Quote:
Stephen faced the same opposition as we see here in this thread, forum, and was stoned to death. The same stones are being thrown by those of universalism....
All the Disciples faced the same opposition.... Peter was crucified up side down on a cross, John the Baptize was beheaded, each one died a dreadful death for the gospel of Christ.
So if you are not killed you must not be teaching the right gospel? is that what Jesus said? You think that the responses you have received from the universalists are comparable to having stones thrown at you or being beheaded? Give me a break... I have never heard (or read) such hogwash in all my life...
Quote:
Acts 6:8-15 8. And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people. 9. But some men from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including both Cyrenians and Alexandrians, and some from Cilicia and Asia, rose up and argued with Stephen. 10. But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking. 11. Then they secretly induced men to say, "We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God." 12. And they stirred up the people, the elders and the scribes, and they came up to him and dragged him away and brought him before the Council. 13. They put forward false witnesses who said, "This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the Law; 14. for we have heard him say that this Nazarene, Jesus, will destroy this place and alter the customs which Moses handed down to us." 15. And fixing their gaze on him, all who were sitting in the Council saw his face like the face of an angel.
When they could not answer Stephen's arguments as a disputant, they prosecuted him as a criminal, and brought false witnesses against him. And it is next to a miracle of providence, that no greater number of religious persons have been murdered in the world, by the way of perjury and pretence of law, when so many thousands hate them, who make no conscience of false oaths. Wisdom and holiness make a man's face to shine, yet will not secure men from being treated badly. What shall we say of man, a rational being, yet attempting to uphold a religious system by false witness and murder! And this has been done in numberless instances. But the blame rests not so much upon the understanding, as upon the heart of a fallen creature, which is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Yet the servant of the Lord, possessing a clear conscience, cheerful hope, and Divine consolations, may smile in the midst of danger and death. Acts 6 Commentary - Stephen falsely accused of blasphemy. - BibleGateway.com
Give heed.... Heb. 2:1-4 1. For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. 2. For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, 3. how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, 4. God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.
Hebrews 3 1. Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2. who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3. For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4. For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5. And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6. but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. 7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “ Today, if you will hear His voice, 8. Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9. Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, ‘They always go astray intheirheart, And they have not known My ways.’ 11. So I swore in My wrath,
‘ They shall not enter My rest.’”
12. Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13. but exhort one another daily, while it is called“Today,”lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15. while it is said: “ Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” 16. For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed,was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17. Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18. And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19. So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
The very argument here is laughable.
Here is what you are saying:
Universal salvation teaches that God loves all and will save all people which is a lie.. God doesn't love all and God will not have those sinners in heaven with ME... I would rather teach people are going to hell if they don't listen to ME....
Why didn't you just post the above statement? It is true.. right?
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-23-2010 at 08:40 AM..
Reason: careful with the personal insults/insults
Moderator cut: request
I remind everyone here to choose your words wisely..Calling each others liars and insulting their beliefs are personal attacks and reasons for infractions..Thanks ..
Everyone who holds to this teaching "Universalism" has once held the truth of God's word, yet, because of the truth that God will not save those who reject Him and will be judged according to His word in Revelations and all through the Scripture. .... they too rejected it
This One World Religion aka Universalism is a perfect tool for Satan, because with this tool he can have people believe they are saved and going to heaven when they are in fact headed exactly where Satan wants them to go: to Hell. After all, that is Satan's goal.
Don't people wonder why Satan is still around? Why does he still attempt to deceive people if everyone is going to heaven anyway? What would be the point of the deception? He might be able to deceive someone into sinning, but for what gain, because with universal salvation even the sinners have a 'get out of hell free card'. So, he would be wasting his time. With that belief every mention of the 'beast' and 'the deceiver' in the Bible is pointless. If Satan is powerless to drag anyone to hell, then his work here is done.
So, with universalism hell doesn't exist and Satan is irrelevant. How convenient.
And how about the end times? Again, why would Satan invest his time and energy to deceive and punish people who are all saved under universalist belief? Heck, go ahead and accept the mark of the beast, because you're going to heaven with or without the mark. Don't worry about what the Bible says, because everyone is auto-saved. Might as well rip the book of revelation out of the Bible and throw it out the window.
The truth is that Satan is still around and very busy deceiving people into sinning, and he does it because he KNOWS that he can still trick people and lead them away from the word of God. He KNOWS everyone is NOT SAVED. Of course if he gets people to believe in fake religions like universalism, then he has them on cruise control to hell since people will believe they are saved when they are not. After all, what's the point in seeking the Lord if everyone is univerally saved?
Finn, sorry to have to burst your bubble but Universalism is not "The One World Religion." Neither is Christianity.
And I doubt that the world will enbrace that "God will save all mankind for Christ ransomed all" according to 1 Timothy 2:4-6 which is true Universalism.
Satan is the accusor of the brethren. Quit doing his job.
This One World Religion aka Universalism is a perfect tool for Satan, because with this tool he can have people believe they are saved and going to heaven when they are in fact headed exactly where Satan wants them to go: to Hell. After all, that is Satan's goal.
Don't people wonder why Satan is still around? Why does he still attempt to deceive people if everyone is going to heaven anyway? What would be the point of the deception? He might be able to deceive someone into sinning, but for what gain, because with universal salvation even the sinners have a 'get out of hell free card'. So, he would be wasting his time. With that belief every mention of the 'beast' and 'the deceiver' in the Bible is pointless. If Satan is powerless to drag anyone to hell, then his work here is done.
So, with universalism hell doesn't exist and Satan is irrelevant. How convenient.
And how about the end times? Again, why would Satan invest his time and energy to deceive and punish people who are all saved under universalist belief? Heck, go ahead and accept the mark of the beast, because you're going to heaven with or without the mark. Don't worry about what the Bible says, because everyone is auto-saved. Might as well rip the book of revelation out of the Bible and throw it out the window.
The truth is that Satan is still around and very busy deceiving people into sinning, and he does it because he KNOWS that he can still trick people and lead them away from the word of God. He KNOWS everyone is NOT SAVED. Of course if he gets people to believe in fake religions like universalism, then he has them on cruise control to hell since people will believe they are saved when they are not. After all, what's the point in seeking the Lord if everyone is univerally saved?
Amen....Finn_Jarber !!
Prov.12:2
A good man will obtain favor from the LORD, But He will condemn a man who devises evil.
Satan hates the Truth of Jesus Christ. And he will use those who oppose God's word to spew their hatred upon those who hold and stand firm, not turning away back to unbelief, but enduring the opposition of the Truth of God's word, even calling them liars and condemning them, when it is God, one is calling a liar.
Isaiah 54:17
" No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their vindication is from Me," declares the LORD.
Mark 16:16
" He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
