When did christianity go atstray? (pray, disciple, Matthew, pagan)

[Toni Sherente]

Originally Posted by shibata

Of its Scriptures, not a living soul can read it in his native language, and published translations are so bad that they either put people off for life with their archaism, or they deceive with readable deadly lies.

Shibata, what are these true Christian Scriptures?

[xube]

Christianity has always been astray...a second rate religion, originated like Islam, from early writings of Judeism...notice how there is more text in the Bible in regards to prior Jesus Jewish leaders (Abraham, Moses, etc.) than Jesus...and then there are Peter, Paul, John, Luke and Mary...oh I forgot one of the rewritings of the bible got rid of Mary....well what do you expect...Christianity is just another religion....like Paganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Huckle Berry Finnism.....South Park...and the bible is just another book like the Quaran, Budduist quotes and Playboy....Jesus got it right...he never became a Jew or a Christian ......just a man...another son of God....like all men.

[Aschultz73]

Originally Posted by shibata

No, but it totally disappeared from history of a thousand years. When it was eventually revived, it was made illegal, it was suppressed, only absurd caricatures of it were allowed to appear in the public face. Of its Scriptures, not a living soul can read it in his native language, and published translations are so bad that they either put people off for life with their archaism, or they deceive with readable deadly lies. The gospel is perverted today by legalistic fundamentalists, by licentious liberals, by scholars who talk hot air, by all of the mendacious media. God can still just about be made out in the mess, but Satan and his servants rampage around like they think they're going to get away with it. For some reason, God does not light the fuse and get rid of it all, but I can't see why he doesn't. There is not the smallest prospect of a golden age of truth arriving.

Christianity has never disappeared. I agree with some of the things you say afterward, but honestly the work of God never can disappear. Take heart in the remnant He saves for God is no less glorified if He saves just one sinner to an eternity in heaven. He knows exactly what is happening. All is according to His plan and by His hand. All we can do is witness to the truth of His scripture and trust in His word!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by shibata

Moderator cut: Orphaned post

I don't think there's any evidence that it went astray during Jesus' lifetime, but there's a ton of evidence that it went astray very shortly thereafter. Do you have any idea how many "denominations" (although they wouldn't have used that word) there were of Christianity by the end of the first century? There were dozens, and if you deny that, you are simply ignoring history.

[shibata]

Originally Posted by Toni Sherente

Shibata, what are these true Christian Scriptures?

The ones that drive scholars into apparent insanity.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Toni Sherente

The Church has often required restoration and renewal to return to its core Christian principles.

The question is, who is authorized to restore something that Jesus Christ himself established? Would it be anybody who felt that the doctrines had changed over time? It seems to me that only Christ could restore His own Church.

[shibata]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I don't think there's any evidence that it went astray during Jesus' lifetime

Quite so. It couldn't!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Aschultz73

Christianity has never been "off track". To imply that it has would imply God's program in Christ Jesus was in error at some point. Christ Jesus was the creative agent in creation as is evidenced by Eve being told by God Himself that her seed would destroy the serpent.

The truth is Christianity in Christ has never been "off track".

So all 30,000 + denominations of Christianity are "on track" when they teach contradicting doctrines? How could that be?

Just because one says they are Christian does not in fact make them one.

And someone saying that someone else is NOT a Christian doesn't make it so, either.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by shibata

Quite so. It couldn't!

True, it would have been quite difficult for it to happen while He was still here. I'm curious, though, as to why you didn't address the rest of my post.

[Aschultz73]

Originally Posted by Toni Sherente

You could say that for any belief system - that it couldn't go 'off track', because by going 'off track' it ceases to be that belief system. But this is just tautology, and doesn't really tell us anything.

What is undoubtedly true is that what purports to be Christianity (the Church, in its various forms) often goes 'off track'. Indeed, at the moment, it is running along a number of different tracks. And there is nothing new in this - it was a first century problem. Jesus Christ said that no food was ritually unclean (Mark 7:15), but the head of the Christian Church in Jerusalem only a few years later announced that certain foods were ritually unclean (Acts 15:20). Clearly, in this respect, Christianity had gone astray from its original form.

Show me one perfect Christian without blemish or error at some point in their lives even after they are saved and I will then show you no need for Christ. With respect, Christianity is not so simply defined by what one says about clean or unclean foods.

Christianity is God who came down in the form of man in Jesus Christ thru which those who believe in Him recieve the Holy Spirit and are reconciled to God.

If you can accept that Christianity is the error of man than you are correct it has gone astray. But if you believe that Christianity is the very act of God redeeming fallen man than it has not gone astray as God Himself can not go astray. Again as I have said there are those who claim Christ, but are clearly not Christian.

I often find it amusing that people claim this and in fact feed the very unbelievers with the words they need to discount the glory of Christ in Christianity.