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Why do people think they are in a better position to say who's a Christian and who isn't than the person they're passing judgment on? This kind of ego is just unbelievable to me!
Calvinists are predestined to act like this! Not their fault. Take it up with God!
Kidding aside, I do wish everyone would stay engaged and make their best case on the actual topic. I agree that implying (basically) "you can't understand this because you're spiritually dumb" is not in the best interests of a debate like this.
Those who believe the Bible is infallible MUST come to grips with the depths and nuances and apparent contradictions on this subject. IMO.
Rev 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
You asked me who the "him" is in Rev. 22:3 and that the answer could be found in Rev. 21:22...
The throne is in the city but there is no temple. The throne cannot be the temple because the lamb and God are the temple.
So the people serving HIM are in the city... and both the temple (God and the Lamb) and the throne are in the city...
I don't see the neon sign in 21:22 pointing to the "him."
I do however see that the term servant is used in many other verses relating to serving God or serving other Gods...
Truly in context you could say that servitude here is akin to slavery. Slavery to God or slavery to sin.. These are the slaves to God.
And the greek agrees. The word is latreuó which is from latris (a hired menial); to minister (to God), i.e. Render religious homage -- serve, do the service, worship(-per). (from Strong's)
And in what verse do people serve the Lamb?
Therefore the HIM is GOD. I think you are taking the literal books and making them spiritual, then taking this book of symbols and making it literal. That is an error in my opinion.
But then I am really not sure what it is you want here ... so perhaps you can explain what this line of questioning has to do with the deity of Christ...
The Subject of your Neon sign is God and the Lamb, and they are Him, and they, the saints, serve Him.
John 19:7
The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."
John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Matthew 26:65-66 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" "He is worthy of death," they answered.
Jesus was claiming to be God when he said he was the Son of God. Jesus was crucified for blasphemy. Conclude whatever you want to, believers will see it, unbelievers will not.
Yes you are correct again twin. Jesus was crucified because He claimed to be God.
John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Jesus was claiming to be God when he said he was the Son of God. Jesus was crucified for blasphemy. Conclude whatever you want to, believers will see it, unbelievers will not.
Kinda funny how you read that. Ever read the previous verses?
"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Hmm, is this like a mind trick? Me and my Father are One, but my Father is greater than ALL, which of course includes ME.
How about this one?
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
How, in this verse, is calling God your Father equal to being the Father?
Another mind trick? If I call my dad, father, am I now equal to my father?
Originally Posted by twin.spin
John 19:7
The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."
John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Matthew 26:65-66
Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" "He is worthy of death," they answered.
Jesus was claiming to be God when he said he was the Son of God. Jesus was crucified for blasphemy. Conclude whatever you want to, believers will see it, unbelievers will not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA
Yes you are correct again twin. Jesus was crucified because He claimed to be God.
Amen.....Twin.spin, ILNC !!!
Yes, He did claim to be God and was crucified for this...!!!
And God will not reveal this to those who defy Him and His word.
Amen.....Twin.spin, ILNC !!!
Yes, He did claim to be God and was crucified for this...!!!
And God will not reveal this to those who defy Him and His word.
God the Father, is a man? Is that what the Word says?
Jhn 4:24
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
Would have been a good time to get this fact straight. But instead, a few verses prior?
"You worship what you do not know; WE worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
"We"? Why is He included in worshipping, if He is the Father? Who is He worshipping?
The Subject of your Neon sign is God and the Lamb, and they are Him, and they, the saints, serve Him.
This is more the neon sign:
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.
There are two thrones. The King's Throne and the Throne of God.
You are assuming there is one throne.. are you not?
Rev. 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and [throne] of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
God gave Christ a throne and has his own. Christ always pointed to God. God is the subject here and is the HIM.
Quote:
Do you worship Christ?
No I don't worship Christ I worship God. The ONE TRUE LIVING GOD... not the man, Christ.
Answer me this: According to your own lesson in this a few months ago.. didn't you tell me that if "the" proceeds both before and after the "and" then it is most likely that it is THE THRONE OF GOD and THE THRONE OF THE LAMB as in two of them? Yet you think the HIM is Jesus + God... (Actually the LAMB is symbolic for Jesus but more accurately for the plan of salvation, so when it says Jesus it means the person but the LAMB is the sacrifice not the personage of Jesus although we understand that in what Jesus did as the Christ he was the Lamb of God as well).
So are you contradicting your own grammatical rules here?
What you tried to explain is not what the Bible teaches about why Jesus was crucified. Jesus DID claim to be God because He IS.
I am perfectly willing to accept your version... show me the scripture in whatever version you want that this was the reason for his crucifixion. You saying it is just regurgitation... show me YOUR understanding and back it up with scripture otherwise how can anyone just simply agree with you? Are you infallible?
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