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I understand that.. but there is no sin in accidentally grabbing a needle and sticking yourself.. where is the sin in that? HIV is not selective.
Not particularly that, but are we all without sin? No and with any sin in ones life it can bring just about any punishment.
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I find the book of Job to show that not all calamity is a result of sin. Job was righteous yet he lost everything. (I also don't think this is a literal rendition of God and Satan or Job for that matter.) I believe that things happen and there is no rhyme or reason we can see for it to be so. BUT that is the way the world must work because we don't see the big picture only God does.
Exactly.
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Does that make sense? So sometimes the righteous come upon calamity and it has nothing to do with their sin or the sin of others. Also if you lie someone will not believe you when you tell the truth so every action has a consequence whether good or bad.
Yes this makes sense but we must remember NO ONE IS WITHOUT SIN even the rightious.
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The bible states that every man shall answer for THEIR OWN sin.. not the sin of others.
Yes and only God knows who is trully at fault.
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Deut. 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
So I am not responsible for the sin you commit or that my husband commits.. only what I commit.
Do you also think that Cancer is the result of sin?
Yes and no. Cancer is a tricky subject but the results of sin can be at fault for cancer and yes possibly the sin of others but remember No one is without sin. The world is so saturated by sin that Christ had to die for mankind to have any chance of salvation.
Not particularly that, but are we all without sin? No and with any sin in ones life it can bring just about any punishment.
Exactly.
Yes this makes sense but we must remember NO ONE IS WITHOUT SIN even the rightious.
Yes and only God knows who is trully at fault.
Yes and no. Cancer is a tricky subject but the results of sin can be at fault for cancer and yes possibly the sin of others but remember No one is without sin. The world is so saturated by sin that Christ had to die for mankind to have any chance of salvation.
Ok I see where you are coming from..
What ailments do you have Robin? High blood pressure? Allergies? Heart disease? What about the flu? Have you gotten the flu lately?
I studied medicine and biological processes for years. There is no way that a bacteria I witnessed multiplying in a petri dish can be a punishment for sin. If so then every ailment that YOU have had shows the amount of sin in your life.
Mother Teresa had two heart attacks, a pacemaker, and a serious bout with pneumonia, broke her collar bone and contracted Malaria before she died at 87... do you think that is all a result of the sins she committed?
But yet The Archbishop of Calcutta ordered a priest to perform an exorcism on her as he thought she may be under attack by the devil. However, she died anyway.
It is thought that the devil was the cause because she apparently didn't sin enough to warrant this much of God's punishment.. is my guess.
How do you view that situation? is sickness really a result of sin or is sickness just a part of life?
Not that He changed anything, but that His plan was fullfillled at one point and He guided it to another to fullfil His ultimate plan.
He didnt, but mankind imposed their interpritation on the laws.
He knew and He knew how ridiculous man would handle it and actually Christ was merely clarifying the truth to Peter.
Actually no changing involved merely clarification. God did not want people to do these thing as a show of obedience which mankind continues to fail everyday.
Robin, you have some land on the moon to sell me, don't you? You do't really expect me to believe that exercise in verbal gymnastics, do you? God seems to work inefficiently and backwards or at least your in your interpretation of him.
Robin, you have some land on the moon to sell me, don't you? You do't really expect me to believe that exercise in verbal gymnastics, do you? God seems to work inefficiently and backwards or at least your in your interpretation of him.
You just need to have a little faith to understand.
The Bible is very accurate as to the nature of humanity and needs no scientific data on that.
Which starts with a myth (a serpent talk to a woman and that screwed up humanity)
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You can't just glibly make the statement as given above and say "the Bible is one of the last places to look to as an authroity o[n] the subject." That is like saying, The Bible has nothing to say on the mating cycles of the African mosquito so how could it know anything about God and man and what the natural inclinations of man should be?
Saying that homosexuality is AGAINST nature based on the bible shows the shortcomings of the bible on being an authority n the subject, because it if the bible writers knew better, they would have known that same sex behavior can be found up and own nature. I'm sure you will attribute that to some "fallen nature" as opposed to something that is 'natural' for some people whether you agree with their disposition or not.
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You have to prove their views were biased. You can't just say they were.
I can easily prove this (trust me, I am not some novice when it comes to the bible) but that is for another thread.
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Just think about it for a second. What is the male thing for besides urinating? What is the woman's female vagina for besides urinating and having periods? The male thing is for the female thing. That is the natural use of both. It is unnatural to put the male penis into the anus of another male. There is no possibility of reproduction in the latter. It is un-natural. The membrane inside the anus is so thin and lacking the ability to fight infections that it is the perfect place in which to start sexually transmitted disease.
I don't entirely disagree with you here, Eusebius, but before I explain something, let me mention something else first. In the video, one lady pointed out something that is indeed interesting and I (a heterosexual man) am guilty of this. Why is it that we ALWAYS think about what homosexuals do in bed when we start thinking about them?
Anyway I have been stressing that nature is diverse. Even if I don't understand it all, I can SEE it is diverse. You can see the differences between siblings. The differences can be in physical features or even emotionally. When you think of the many things that MUST happen over a 9-month period with a womb, it is not surprising to me that slight changes can result in a "this" or "that" child. It is NOT surprising to me that a child can be born physically looking like a boy yet nature gives him a female brain. The same can be said about a girl at birth with a male brain and everything in between. Nature deals all kinds of other surprised that are "out of the norm" (to you and I).
Think about it, there has to be a "perfect" balance of countless things over 9 months within a womb to bring about a "perfect" child, but things can go wrong OR nature can decide to do one thing over another and as far at nature is concerned, the final product is okay - just different. We, the observers are the ones who make the distinctions and discriminations accordingly. We bring the hate because "it" doesn't look like us, sound like us or act like us.
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The world view the Jews lived in what that the Greeks were largely homosexually inclined in the day the new testament was written.
And because the Jews had a problem with that I should make it my business for it to my problem too?
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Had your mom and dad been gay they would have seen no need to marry each other and would have partnered with their own lesbo and gay partners and hence, you'd never have seen the light of day. You'd have been squirted up where the sun don't shine and said "Oh crap!" and been right for once.
There you go again with the visuals. Why do WE (me included) ALWAYS go there and show that our minds are often in the gutter and the gutter only when we think of homosexual couples? When I see Jack walking down the street wit Jill, I rarely think of what they do in bed, but when it comes to Jack and Mack WE do. Why is that?
Anyway why would I concern myself with what I think about the matter if I was not born? That's like me being dead and finding fault with who my son marries.
Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 02-26-2010 at 04:43 PM..
Well the Bible is clear throughout, OT and NT. Sexual sin leads to distruction. Do we really need to specify which chapters and verses? The Word of God never changes but the way He handles mankind does. The Dietary aspects were done away with by Christ but the Sexual aspects are still in effect even today. If you chose to go against God then your own destruction is on yourself.
I did see the videos and I saw alot of misguided people on both side of the argument. God is clearly against sexual sin and yes the Bible says so as well as the Holy Spirit but you can continue on this path of tolerance but dont cry when the Lord returns.
What ailments do you have Robin? High blood pressure? Allergies? Heart disease? What about the flu? Have you gotten the flu lately?
Well lets just say I had a stroke last May and I was only 39. I am currently on medication for high bloodpressure and cholesteral. I have had alleries all my life, my father was a heavy smooker. My heart is just fine and not a cause of the stroke. It was a freak blood clot and it came from a severe blow to the neck. I participated in a toughman contest seven years ago and that is when my symptoms start, according to my doctor. I havent had the flu since my stroke. But yes I have had plenty of sin in my life to justify any ailements I have or have had.
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I studied medicine and biological processes for years. There is no way that a bacteria I witnessed multiplying in a petri dish can be a punishment for sin. If so then every ailment that YOU have had shows the amount of sin in your life.
Not quite, as I have said before, the world is saturated by sin and no one is safe. You can have peace of mind but no one ever promised peace in the flesh in the life.
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Mother Teresa had two heart attacks, a pacemaker, and a serious bout with pneumonia, broke her collar bone and contracted Malaria before she died at 87... do you think that is all a result of the sins she committed?
She knew the consiquences of her mission and she knew the price she would pay and she paid it willingly.
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It is thought that the devil was the cause because she apparently didn't sin enough to warrant this much of God's punishment.. is my guess.
Any sin warrants any punishment in Gods plan.
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How do you view that situation? is sickness really a result of sin or is sickness just a part of life?
In this world sin is so rampant that yes sickness is as well.
So I personally don't believe HIV is a punishment from God.. it happened now we need to deal with it. Shunning people and segregating them is not the answer... I worked in a hospital for many years and the greatest fear was that you would stick yourself with a needle and contract HIV or Hepatitis... This is why there are such stringent rules about sharps in a clinic setting. Unfortunately these rules came too late for some.
it is because of our sin that these things happen...the elements are there...the restrictions are there and if we ignore those restrictions we get what we deserve...I personally do not shun anyone...If one is a true believer they will not fear being in close contact with such people because they know and trust God that He will protect them and if it is His will to take them then a true believer would be cool with that...I know that God has given me a certain number of years to live and i cannot exceed them or diminish them and i will die when and where and of what God chooses so knowing this and believing this, which is from scripture, it enables me to do things a lot of other weaker christians are afraid to do...it takes the fear away, that is Faith takes my fear away...It is usually those that turn from me and do not wish to be around me because i do not condone their lifestyle...Men i work with do not wish to "hang out" with me because i do not chase women or party anymore...to them i have become boring...I can still "hang out" but i will not share in your sin...and i will speak out against it and give my reasons why...No matter where i am at i will speak of God and Christ and Salvation and what Sin is...some want to hear it and others do not...as in Acts when Peter preached to a multitude, it says that God added 3000 to the church that day,...out of the multitude 3000 wanted to hear what was said and believed, while the rest did not and turned away...None of us True Believers should fear being in close contact with anyone...for it is God that perpetuates our existence, not us...no matter how safe we try to be, when our number is up, our number is up...take an example from Christ and the Apostles...they were in close contact with lepers...they disregarded their own well being in order to reach out...they did not shurk...they ate and drank with sinners...but did not participate in their sins...and those that did not want to be around them because they did not participate in their sins went away...but, those that wanted to learn, stayed...
Last edited by Richard1965; 02-27-2010 at 04:38 AM..
So, HIV and other STDs are God's punishment for sexual immorality? Wow. Our Omnipotent God's carefully calculated retribution can be thwarted by a tiny piece of latex!
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God seems to work inefficiently and backwards or at least your in your interpretation of him.
