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I was up last and I saw a couple of speakers on TBN talking about law and grace, then Creflo Dollar started going on about Gods grace and it was a very good message he was giving for a while, until he started saying the OT is bondage and Then he goes on to say we are under grace and all the law is abolished, including the 10 commandments.
He says we dont need a check list to tell us what do do and that the Holy Spirit will lead you instead. Instead of going by a list of rules not to murder and commit adultery etc, the Holy Spirit will tell you not to even go out with that other person in the 1st place to avoid having to be put in that situation.
Outside of the animal sacrifices, do people really see Gods laws as bondage when Paul himself said Gods law was holy and just.
Isnt the law written on our hearts now, so we shoudl know better than to do certain things?
Does that make any sense to you that Jesus would abolish the very commands his father made?
I was up last and I saw a couple of speakers on TBN talking about law and grace, then Creflo Dollar started going on about Gods grace and it was a very good message he was giving for a while, until he started saying the OT is bondage and Then he goes on to say we are under grace and all the law is abolished, including the 10 commandments.
He says we dont need a check list to tell us what do do and that the Holy Spirit will lead you instead. Instead of going by a list of rules not to murder and commit adultery etc, the Holy Spirit will tell you not to even go out with that other person in the 1st place to avoid having to be put in that situation.
Outside of the animal sacrifices, do people really see Gods laws as bondage when Paul himself said Gods law was holy and just.
Isnt the law written on our hearts now, so we shoudl know better than to do certain things?
Does that make any sense to you that Jesus would abolish the very commands his father made?
You've kind of put me in a bind. On one hand, I think Creflo Dollar is a money-grubbing televangelist heretic. I have found very little of him to think that he preaches what the Bible actually says.
On the other hand, he's got a point -- if you are relying on the Law to make you holy and righteous before God, you will never be righteous. Jesus is the end of the Law for righteousness for those that believe. (Rom 10:4). Now, I didn't see this particular message that Dollar was giving....so I can't say with certainty what he said on tv that you saw.
If you're relying on the Law for righteousness, it is bondage. The Law did nothing but illustrate where we sinned. It does not make one righteous. Having said that, now that we are Christians, the Law is to be used positively in showing us how we should live. Instead of not murdering, we should be seeking to do good for the person. Instead of not stealing, we should be seeking our neighbor's well-being. To do so is to live in love. We do this out of gratitude for Christ saving us.
I was up last and I saw a couple of speakers on TBN talking about law and grace, then Creflo Dollar started going on about Gods grace and it was a very good message he was giving for a while, until he started saying the OT is bondage and Then he goes on to say we are under grace and all the law is abolished, including the 10 commandments.
He says we dont need a check list to tell us what do do and that the Holy Spirit will lead you instead. Instead of going by a list of rules not to murder and commit adultery etc, the Holy Spirit will tell you not to even go out with that other person in the 1st place to avoid having to be put in that situation.
Outside of the animal sacrifices, do people really see Gods laws as bondage when Paul himself said Gods law was holy and just.
Isnt the law written on our hearts now, so we shoudl know better than to do certain things?
Does that make any sense to you that Jesus would abolish the very commands his father made?
Dear saan,
The gospel of Grace is the gospel of the 2nd staff of Zechariah 11:8-10, who was called "Favor", as in Grace being in the state of the "Favor of God". Those of the 2nd staff's flock, are "doomed to slaughter". (Ze 11:7) That flock would be referred to as "Christian", whereas in truth, they have nailed Yeshua's testimony to the symbolic pagan cross, in exchange for a gospel of a self professed prophet. (John 5:31)
As for those who keep the Commandments of God and the testimony of Yeshua, they get the privilege of making war with the "dragon". (Rev 12:17) The "dragon" is the one who gives his authority to the heads of the beast, such as reflected by the Roman empire, and the Roman empire provides support for the "Mother of Harlots, Babylon the Great (Rev 17:3). The "Christian" church is simply one of the daughters of Babylon. The beast with two horns like a lamb is Constantine, and those two lamb like horns are Peter and Paul. The "Christian" church is not built on the testimony of Yeshua, nor the Commandments of God, but on the foundation of the self professed apostle and prophet Paul, and supposedly on the feckless Peter.
The head of the beast today, with respect to the 10 horns of the 8th head of the beast in Rev 17:11, is the last head. Our half Arab and half Caucasian Obama would fit nicely into shoe of one of the 10 horns of the last beast. Truth is the weapon of choice in over throwing this horn of the beast. The culminating final result would be the desolation of the harlot. (Rev 17:16)
Last edited by 2ndpillar; 04-01-2014 at 12:11 PM..
You've kind of put me in a bind. On one hand, I think Creflo Dollar is a money-grubbing televangelist heretic. I have found very little of him to think that he preaches what the Bible actually says.
On the other hand, he's got a point -- if you are relying on the Law to make you holy and righteous before God, you will never be righteous. Jesus is the end of the Law for righteousness for those that believe. (Rom 10:4). Now, I didn't see this particular message that Dollar was giving....so I can't say with certainty what he said on tv that you saw.
If you're relying on the Law for righteousness, it is bondage. The Law did nothing but illustrate where we sinned. It does not make one righteous. Having said that, now that we are Christians, the Law is to be used positively in showing us how we should live. Instead of not murdering, we should be seeking to do good for the person. Instead of not stealing, we should be seeking our neighbor's well-being. To do so is to live in love. We do this out of gratitude for Christ saving us.
I get what your saying, but I dont think anyone is actually relying on the Law for righteousness though, other than a few SDA's I know and some Hebrew Roots movement people I know also. But why teach the 10C's are abolished, that isnt even biblical, when Jesus was always quoting from them.
I get what your saying, but I dont think anyone is actually relying on the Law for righteousness though, other than a few SDA's I know and some Hebrew Roots movement people I know also. But why teach the 10C's are abolished, that isnt even biblical, when Jesus was always quoting from them.
They are not abolished....but they were not spoken to Christians living in the New Covenant. They were spoken to people under the Mosaic Law.
They are not abolished....but they were not spoken to Christians living in the New Covenant. They were spoken to people under the Mosaic Law.
Dear Vizio,
As per Daniel 7:24-25, the king will "INTEND TO MAKE ALTERATIONS IN THE TIMES AND IN LAW".
This is what Constantine did. He altered the Law, in the form of multiple god heads, changing the day of rest, and graven images. If you include the Roman Catholic church as a spokesman for "Christianity", then the 10 commandments are still in affect, only they have been altered, to change the day of rest, deletion of graven images, and multiple god heads.
As per the Word of God, the Commandments apply to "every person". (Ecc 12:14) This actually with respect to God's Commandments, and not the commandments of men or the Roman church or the commandments of her daughters.
As for your misapplied "New Covenant", which was given to the house of Israel (Jer 31:32), and the house of Judah, Revelation 12:17 was probably written well after Paul died, and clearly refers to keeping the Commandments, and the testimony of Yeshua.
IMO an uncertain amount of Christians see the Commandments as a burden (which some call bondage). Many are tied to the single word of "Commandments" instead of "Ethical Opportunities" & "Moral Deeds".
There is more than 10, so read through the following link and see if they are "Commandments" instead of "Ethical Opportunities" & "Moral Deeds".
As per Daniel 7:24-25, the king will "INTEND TO MAKE ALTERATIONS IN THE TIMES AND IN LAW".
This is what Constantine did. He altered the Law, in the form of multiple god heads, changing the day of rest, and graven images. If you include the Roman Catholic church as a spokesman for "Christianity", then the 10 commandments are still in affect, only they have been altered, to change the day of rest, deletion of graven images, and multiple god heads.
I would highly question your interpretation of Daniel 7. That one that is to change times and the law is not Constantine, but the antichrist. I do not recognize the RCC as a spokesman for Christianity, and the 10 Commandments are not still in effect, altered or otherwise.
Quote:
As per the Word of God, the Commandments apply to "every person". (Ecc 12:14) This actually with respect to God's Commandments, and not the commandments of men or the Roman church or the commandments of her daughters.
Ecc 12:14 says no such thing.
Quote:
As for your misapplied "New Covenant", which was given to the house of Israel (Jer 31:32), and the house of Judah, Revelation 12:17 was probably written well after Paul died, and clearly refers to keeping the Commandments, and the testimony of Yeshua.
Why do you think I'm referring to a verse from Jeremiah 31? And who is "Yeshua"?
The law has not changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament in relation to the authority of the devil and his authority which God gives the devil because sin is not of the Lord and His character ...And if believers adopt sin in their lives and iniquity sets in where faith in God can wane , and believers can let their guard down where the devil can come in and answers to prayer can go unanswered until repentance comes ............So if a believers goes around murdering people or coveting people or stealing from people then the devil will have authority and can hold curse on believers ..............So law or no law of God Jesus still has ethics in the relationship with His Spirits and conditions of faith which must be used and people who fall into iniquity can make grave errors as their faith may have been lost , and no faith Jesus will judge people on the judgment seat after they pass of from this world
I would highly question your interpretation of Daniel 7. That one that is to change times and the law is not Constantine, but the antichrist. I do not recognize the RCC as a spokesman for Christianity, and the 10 Commandments are not still in effect, altered or otherwise.
Ecc 12:14 says no such thing.
Why do you think I'm referring to a verse from Jeremiah 31? And who is "Yeshua"?
Dear vizio,
As per John, there was at that time many antichrist and there would be more antichrist.
1 John 2:18 NAS Children, it is the last hour ; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared ; from this we know that it is the last hour.
You are most likely quoting Hebrews 8:8-13, which is copy of Jeremiah 31:32, in which "THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERY ONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN, AND EVERY ONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, KNOW THE LORD', FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME'". This is the origin of the "New Testament" concept, and has not happened. As for the circumcision of the heart, Moses & Jeremiah preached that principal when they were alive.
Jeremiah 4:4 NAS "Circumcise yourselves to the LORD And remove the foreskins of your heart, Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Or else My wrath will go forth like fire And burn with none to quench it, Because of the evil of your deeds."
As for the name Yeshua, that is the original, non formal name for the writer of "Revelation", and the son of man, whom John the Baptist gave witness. The name "Jesus", was an invention which didn't happen until around the 16th century. The English version of his name would be Joshua, not "Jesus".
As for the RCC being the spokesman for "Christianity", there was no definable "Christianity", until the Council of Nicaea, and she was the product of that Roman council. "Christianity's" false doctrine of the Trinity was conceived at that Council, and was formalized by the emperor of Rome in 381 A.D..
As for Ecc 12:13-14," The conclusion , when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14 For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.
Formalization of Trinity Doctrine:
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]#629650dosius. 'Weauthorise followers of this law to assume the title of orthodox Christians; butas for the others since, in our judgement, they are foolish madmen, we decreethat they shall be branded with the ignominious names of heretics.' -Emperor
In AD 381, Theodosius, emperor of the eastern Roman empire, issued a decree inwhich all his subjects were required to subscribe to a belief in the Trinity ofthe Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This edict defined Christian orthodoxy andbrought to an end a lively and wide-ranging debate about the nature of theGodhead; all other interpretations were now declared heretical.
Moreover, for the first time in a thousand years of Greco-Roman civilizationfree thought was unambiguously suppressed. Not since the attempt of the pharaohAkhenaten to impose his god Aten on his Egyptian subjects in the fourteenthcentury BC had there been such a wide sweeping programme of religiouscoercion.Yet surprisingly this political revolution, intended to bring innercohesion to an empire under threat from the outside, has been airbrushed fromthe historical record. Instead, it has been claimed that the Christian Churchhad reached a consensus on the Trinity which was promulgated at the Council ofConstantinople in AD 381. In this groundbreaking new book, acclaimed historianCharles Freeman shows that the council was in fact a shambolic affair, whichonly took place after Theodosius' decree had become law. In short, the Churchwas acquiescing in the overwhelming power of the emperor. Freeman argues thatTheodosius' edict and the subsequent suppression of paganism not only broughtan end to the diversity of religious and philosophical beliefs throughout theempire but created numerous theological problems for the Church, which haveremained unsolved. The year AD 381, Freeman concludes, marked 'a turning pointwhich time forgot'.
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