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John 14:23 ''If anyone loves Me (Jesus speaking of Himself), he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him, and make OUR abode with him.
Jesus stating that both He and the Father who are two separate Persons of the Trinity, will indwell the body of the church-age believer.
And with regard to the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Trinity;
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him (God the Holy Spirit) who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He (God the Father) who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit (God the Holy Spirit) who indwells you.
1 Corinthians 6:19 'Or do you not know that your BODY is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you...'
As shown in these three passages, all three Persons of the Trinity indwell the body of the church-age believer.
To deny the Triune Personhood of God is to deny what is written in the Bible about God and is a denial of the reality of God.
I deny nothing except your absurd man-made "mystery" of Three in One. They are ALL the SAME. We experience and know about them in three different ways . . . Jesus in a human body, Jesus as Spirit in a REBORN human consciousness, and God the Father Creator of all and the original (and ONLY) source of the consciousness. It is ALL THE SAME SPIRIT (Consciousness).
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-09-2010 at 10:55 AM..
When you say we, i suppose you are referring to yourself along with everyone who believes God will have his angels cast most humanity into a literal lake of fire where they will be tormented/tortured and burned for ever and ever in the presence of the lamb ... Right? And that in fact they are in the flames of hell right now, being tortured by demons which God put there for the very purpose of tormenting the wicked and unbelievers who have died. Isn't that what you believe or not? That's what Mike555 believes, and many others here ... As far as i can tell from his words that is what DRob4JC believes, whom i was answering in my post to which you initially replied.
What you have a problem with me saying torture instead of torment? Do you really believe there is any difference? If you are burning for ever don't you think that would be torture? And if you do not believe this and teach it, what do you believe and teach fundie? Please feel free to explain it ...
That is Dante's Inferno which sadly many Christians misconstrue with the real hell. I don't believe hell is a literal fire that burns like the fire we see in our realm. The fire is within and effects the inside as well as the outside of the body.
What would be the point? They believe everyone is saved whether they believe the Gospel or not. The diciples wasted their time, and died spreading a message which was not not needed by the people. The people were saved with or without it.
All the URs ever do is try convince people they don't need Christ.
That is Dante's Inferno which sadly many Christians misconstrue with the real hell. I don't believe hell is a literal fire that burns like the fire we see in our realm. The fire is within and effects the inside as well as the outside of the body.
Well you seem to be progressing ... Nevertheless i was responding to DRob4JC so why do you lump yourself together with him when you do not believe the way he does?
And what ever you believe hell to be, do you think that it is pleasant there? Or do you believe people are being tormented there?
That's your problem in universalism and one of the reasons why it was deemed a heresy. God does not save my friend....Jesus saves!
Isa 43:11 I, I, Yahweh am El! And there is no Saviour apart from Me.
ALL are Saved THROUGH Jesus Christ. If you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father.
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God respects man's will that He will allow man to choose His fate by allowing man to sin.
Well, but that is not the whole story, nor it is necessarily a truth concerning eternal damnation.
God lets man choose his way concerning what man has the power to do.
But God establishes the steps concerning his preparation for what we do.
Pr 16:9 A man's heart devises his way, Yet Yahweh establishes his steps.
Pr 5:21 For the ways of a man are before the eyes of Yahweh, Who ponders all his routes.
The wages of Sin is death, that is actually a good thing, for the caterpillar has to die so the butterfly emerges, so it is with us.
That is why the whole bible turns out to be GOOD NEWS for everyone.
God respects man's will that He will allow man to choose His fate by allowing man to sin.
This is so obviously bogus . . . it is like saying a robber allows you to choose your fate by allowing you to keep your wallet and die!!! . . . (or give him your wallet and live).
And here we go. ALL are SAVED THROUGH JESUS you will not find any post I have ever made saying all are saved anyway, so repent of your lie.
Are you not a universalist? Then you most certainly have told the unsaved in no uncertain terms that they will be saved eventually so no worries, don't need to be concerned about knowing Christ in this life. You just said it right here!! And there are rules about calling someone a liar.
This is so obviously bogus . . . it is like saying a robber allows you to choose your fate by allowing you to keep your wallet and die!!! . . . (or give him your wallet and live).
Not to mention the fact that the bible is clear about humanity being in bondage to sin. I did not choose to be born a sinner, but that is what happened to me. Fundamentalist is going all over the place right now trying to do or say what ever he can to mix up the point. And none of it is scriptural.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber What would be the point? They believe everyone is saved whether they believe the Gospel or not. The diciples wasted their time, and died spreading a message which was not not needed by the people. The people were saved with or without it.
All the URs ever do is try convince people they don't need Christ.
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Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Exactly.
URs try to convince people that ALL they need is Christ. Why don't you accuse UR believers of having TOO much faith in Christ instead of none??
Isa 43:11 I, I, Yahweh am El! And there is no Saviour apart from Me.
ALL are Saved THROUGH Jesus Christ. If you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father. .
Using that verse shows an abstract argument to what I was referring to. Jesus is not a tool used by the Father, salvation is an ongoing dynamic work of Jesus Christ in us as the Father is in Him.
Quote:
Well, but that is not the whole story, nor it is necessarily a truth concerning eternal damnation.
God lets man choose his way concerning what man has the power to do.
But God establishes the steps concerning his preparation for what we do.
Pr 16:9 A man's heart devises his way, Yet Yahweh establishes his steps.
Pr 5:21 For the ways of a man are before the eyes of Yahweh, Who ponders all his routes.
The wages of Sin is death, that is actually a good thing, for the caterpillar has to die so the butterfly emerges, so it is with us.
That is why the whole bible turns out to be GOOD NEWS for everyone.
The bible is for believers because unbelievers would never understand and the bible says as much. I never said anything about eternal damnation. I said God doesn't violate anyone's will. He allows people to choose their fate.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 03-09-2010 at 11:00 AM..
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