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If Satan decided to spread a lie about God, which one do you think would be most hurtful to God? That God's compassions fail not, so he will save those He created, or that God will burn you if you don't understand that Jesus died for your sins?.
#1 - Satan knows that he can't hurt God - this is a false premise.
#2 - It would seem that if Satan wanted to confuse people - it would work more to his advantage to say everyone was saved - which takes the focus off of one's need for Christ - and in the end, they would be with him because they did not accept Christ.
Originally Posted by twin.spin The unbeliever will never be forgiven.
In 1 Timothy 1:13 Paul says that he was shown mercy BECAUSE OF his unbelief.
"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."
Read that again:
1 Timothy 1: 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
If you do not like anyone misquoting you or taking anything you said out of context, then you better knock it off. That is being a false witness.
But in Revelation it states the gates to the kingdom are never closed... so why would the door be locked from the inside?
Hmmmm... I guess I figured love's door is always open by definition. (God is Love, 1 John 4:7-8)
Earlier in the chapter that you quoted from - it says
Rev. 21:7-8 - "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Why do you believe v. 25 about the gates never being closed, but you don't believe verses 7-8?
But also no where in the bible does it say there is no second chance after death. In fact the bible doesn't even say salvation is left up to "chance". It is up to God and Jesus.
Actually it does imply there is no second chance - but you change the meaning of certain word(s) to support your viewpoint.
#1 - Satan knows that he can't hurt God - this is a false premise.
Satan can only do what he's given liberty to do - the waster was created to destroy; there is a purpose for his existance, and I believe that is to feed on flesh. When there is light, he is not a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
#2 - It would seem that if Satan wanted to confuse people - it would work more to his advantage to say everyone was saved - which takes the focus off of one's need for Christ - and in the end, they would be with him because they did not accept Christ.
Satan WILL NEVER GLORIFY CHRIST'S VICTORY AT CALVARY
If the wages of sin are death... right? then when one dies they have paid the wages of sin... right?
What is left to pay for?
Also, if Christ paid those wages for sin... what debt is left unpaid?
I guess in my way of thinking..
Jesus is like a car wash.. everyone going into the presence of God has to go through the wash... Therefore, everyone MUST go through Christ to be saved and ALL will be saved.
So if Christ paid the debt for all sin, how is it that some are eternally punished for the debt still?
If you believe in Christ, and you become part of the body of Christ - and you are in Christ - then yes, His death pays the debt since you are one with Him.
If you do not have Christ - then Christ does not pay the debt.
The gift from God is that Christ is available and His death is powerful enough to save the world from their sins.
1 John 5:11-12 - And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
That's like walking by a burning building with someone inside who doesn't know and saying "It's not my calling to tell them there's a fire. Other people have the gift to do that".
If the enemy pulls out the batteries to the smoke alarm, and no one sees any smoke or feels any heat - people will not leave unless forced to do so. Ever been present when a fire alarm goes off and there is no indication of fire? People just kind of stop and look at each other.
This false belief that "all will be saved" is pulling out the batteries of the smoke alarm.
I agree with Legoman that your heart is in the right place. I sense a really sweet spirit in you. One point I'd like to make is if free will is so terribly important to God, it seems that it would not cease to exist once someone dies, especially since God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I've heard people say that God is too much of a "gentleman" to force us to go against our own free will, but yet if eternal torture is real, He forces people to go against their own free will when they go to hell. Does he cease to be a "gentleman" once someone dies, or is He the same yesterday, today, and forever?
#1 - God is not a gentleman.
#2 - Our free will is subject to His will - i.e., it is limited. Ask Nebuchadnezzar if he wanted to be an animal for seven years.
Daniel 4:31-33 - "While the word was in the king's mouth, a voice came from heaven, saying, `King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you, 32 and you will be driven away from mankind, and your dwelling place will be with the beasts of the field. You will be given grass to eat like cattle, and seven periods of time will pass over you until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.' 33 "Immediately the word concerning Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled; and he was driven away from mankind and began eating grass like cattle, and his body was drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair had grown like eagles' feathers and his nails like birds' claws.
#3 - The Bible does not speak specifically on this (maybe Luke 16), but limited free will may exist regardless of one's location (hell or heaven).
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by twin.spin The unbeliever will never be forgiven.
I said: In 1 Timothy 1:13 Paul says that he was shown mercy BECAUSE OF his unbelief.
"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
Read that again:
1 Timothy 1: 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
If you do not like anyone misquoting you or taking anything you said out of context, then you better knock it off. That is being a false witness.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I quoted a verse that says Paul was shown mercy because he "did it ignorantly in unbelief." The other verses do not say he was shown mercy because of his belief, do they?
I'm not even sure what you meant about taking this out of context because I certainly didn't.
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