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Old 03-07-2010, 08:15 PM
 
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is coming to terms with a pre tribulation rapture, at a certain point, a leap of faith?,
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:17 PM
 
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Of course the rapture or snatching takes faith. Faith is believing what has not come to pass. We don't just hope there will be one, we expect it will be so.

The apostle Paul said that there will be a snatching away or rapture. The problem is that some people use the wrong scriptures to prove it.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 986,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jman1234 View Post
is coming to terms with a pre tribulation rapture, at a certain point, a leap of faith?,
More like a call to keep the faith in Jesus Christ as we lean on Him to help us to continue to abide in Him to be ready to be received as the chaste bride from the Bridegroom to the Father's Mansion.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
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I struggle with the part of the rapture that involves the "saved" going away for seven years. I believe we, who are saved, will be raptured up to meet Jesus in the clouds... but then stay with Jesus as he decends down to earth for the final battle and judgment.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:06 PM
 
12,787 posts, read 6,768,039 times
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Originally Posted by G&FServant View Post
I struggle with the part of the rapture that involves the "saved" going away for seven years. I believe we, who are saved, will be raptured up to meet Jesus in the clouds... but then stay with Jesus as he decends down to earth for the final battle and judgment.
No. The church is taken up into Heaven prior to and for the duration of the seven year Tribulation. It was Jesus Himself who made the first mention in the Gospels of the event we call the rapture.

John 14:2 ''In My Father's house (Heaven) are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

This is speaking of the pre-Tribulational rapture of the Church. This is not talking about individual believers dying and going to heaven. We do of course, but that is not what is in view here. Christ does not return everytime a believer dies. He is speaking of returning and taking believers to a place that was prepared for them in His Father's house. Heaven.

John 14:2 parallels 1 Thess. 4:13-17.

Revelation 19:7-9 shows the church in Heaven just prior to returning to the earth with Christ at the end of the Tribulation.
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:53 PM
 
150 posts, read 178,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No. The church is taken up into Heaven prior to and for the duration of the seven year Tribulation. It was Jesus Himself who made the first mention in the Gospels of the event we call the rapture.

John 14:2 ''In My Father's house (Heaven) are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

This is speaking of the pre-Tribulational rapture of the Church. This is not talking about individual believers dying and going to heaven. We do of course, but that is not what is in view here. Christ does not return everytime a believer dies. He is speaking of returning and taking believers to a place that was prepared for them in His Father's house. Heaven.

John 14:2 parallels 1 Thess. 4:13-17.

Revelation 19:7-9 shows the church in Heaven just prior to returning to the earth with Christ at the end of the Tribulation.
"I will come again and receive you to Myself,that where I am, there you may be also.
This is the second coming and the 1000 year reign on Earth.

Your quote of John 14:2 has absolutely nothing to do with the "so called " pre-trib rapture.It has everything to with Jesus second coming and gathering us to Himself.

Somehow you omitted the rest of Revelation chapter 19 which describes Jesus coming to to rule the nations with a rod of iron. [Rev 19:15]
Jesus crushes His opposition and rules a 1000 years on the Earth.[Rev 20:4]

The multitude in heaven are the saints that are already there because they came out of the great tribulation [Rev 7:9-17]

The book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
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Funny thing about prophecy is that if we all had the right teacher we would all believe the same thing - but still there is pre, mid, and post - and then there are those that see the revelation (uncovering) of Jesus Christ to one of His appearing in the sons of God.

Or what exactly is creation waiting for?

What do you, as a believer, want - escape, or to overcome and be like Him?
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:37 PM
 
12,787 posts, read 6,768,039 times
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Originally Posted by riceweevil View Post
"I will come again and receive you to Myself,that where I am, there you may be also.
This is the second coming and the 1000 year reign on Earth.

Your quote of John 14:2 has absolutely nothing to do with the "so called " pre-trib rapture.It has everything to with Jesus second coming and gathering us to Himself.

Somehow you omitted the rest of Revelation chapter 19 which describes Jesus coming to to rule the nations with a rod of iron. [Rev 19:15]
Jesus crushes His opposition and rules a 1000 years on the Earth.[Rev 20:4]

The multitude in heaven are the saints that are already there because they came out of the great tribulation [Rev 7:9-17]

The book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
No, John 14:1-3 is not about the Millennial rule. The passage is talking about returning to the earth to take believers back to the mentioned dwelling places in His Fathers house which is Heaven. Not the Millennial kingdom.

And the saints in Heaven that are mentioned in Revelation 19:7-8 are the church. The bride of Christ.

The Tribulational martyrs are mentioned in Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4.

The church-the bride of Christ returns to the earth with Christ at His Second Advent at the end of the Tribulation.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:53 PM
 
150 posts, read 178,410 times
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, John 14:1-3 is not about the Millennial rule. The passage is talking about returning to the earth to take believers back to the mentioned dwelling places in His Fathers house which is Heaven. Not the Millennial kingdom.

And the saints in Heaven that are mentioned in Revelation 19:7-8 are the church. The bride of Christ.

The Tribulational martyrs are mentioned in Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4.

The church-the bride of Christ returns to the earth with Christ at His Second Advent at the end of the Tribulation.
The foolish virgins were looking for an early wedding.[Pre-Trib rapture]
The wise virgins were prepared for a bridegroom who was delayed in coming.[Jesus Second Coming at the end of the Great Tribulation to harvest the earth and seperate the wheat from the tares.
He gathers up the tares first before the wheat.Jesus stated that, not me.

There is no such thing as a "pre-tribulation rapture". It is a FALSE doctrine that is misleading many down the wrong road.
This revelation came to me about 20 years ago when I started studying the Scriptures for myself with the guidance of the Holy Spirit instead of listening to seminary trained preachers.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 572,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No. The church is taken up into Heaven prior to and for the duration of the seven year Tribulation. It was Jesus Himself who made the first mention in the Gospels of the event we call the rapture.
The phrase, "seven years great tribulation" never occurs in the Bible. I've challenged you to cite even one statement with those actual words in it many times. If there was one you should have found it by now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
John 14:2 ''In My Father's house (Heaven) are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

This is speaking of the pre-Tribulational rapture of the Church.
Never occurring in the Bible, the word "rapture" is received from the traditions of men which is a way they make void the Word of God, just as Jesus described. Nobody can look it up to help themselves or others to better understand what is written as we can with Bible words and their categories. The meaning of "rapture" varies according to who your teachers were.

I suppose along with this you have been taught that during this "tribuation" God will turn to His chosen people the Jews. I know those in popular media define the Jews racially even though God was never a racist. I just wanted to ask if I'm at least 51% Jewish racially will I be left behind? (Of course, God proves who His chosen people are by giving them the Holy Ghost; but then, you want to be a racist.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This is not talking about individual believers dying and going to heaven. We do of course, but that is not what is in view here.
In the Bible the phrase "go to heaven" is never used in relation to anything...because it never occurs. Also, it is very important that we understand Jesus did not bring us a better hope in death, but victory over death. The gospel is about our being made in the image and likeness of God. Paul's aim, which I believe we should teach to be emulated, was to attain to being raised out from among the dead, to obtain a body of glory like unto Jesus' body, and he also described it as being summoned into a higher dimension in Christ. (cf., Phil 3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Christ does not return everytime a believer dies. He is speaking of returning and taking believers to a place that was prepared for them in His Father's house. Heaven.
Jesus is the Father's house and so are we:

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (1 Ti 3:15, AV)

For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Pe 4:17, AV)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
John 14:2 parallels 1 Thess. 4:13-17.

Revelation 19:7-9 shows the church in Heaven just prior to returning to the earth with Christ at the end of the Tribulation.
Don't you feel any check in your spirit? Is there no conviction when you make up so much stuff that's just not there (in the Bible?) It makes me feel creepy and I'm not writing it.
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