Christian UR People - How long were you a Christian when you stopped believing in eternal torture? (church, believers)

[Finn_Jarber]

This confirms what I thought. Despite of all their efforts to preach UR, not a single one of them bought the UR story when they were unbelievers. If UR is the light, then none of them saw it. They saw the real light of true Gospel and salvation through repentance and belief in Christ and they were drawn to it. Unfortunately they walked right through the light into something else.

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

This confirms what I thought. Despite of all their efforts to preach UR, not a single one of them bought the UR story when they were unbelievers. If UR is the light, then none of them saw it. They saw the real light of true Gospel and salvation through repentance and belief in Christ and they were drawn to it. Unfortunately they walked right through the light into something else.

Confirms what I believe too - the veil has to be lifted before one can see the deeper mysteries of God's plan. In short, one has to know Him deeper.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

This confirms what I thought. Despite of all their efforts to preach UR, not a single one of them bought the UR story when they were unbelievers. If UR is the light, then none of them saw it. They saw the real light of true Gospel and salvation through repentance and belief in Christ and they were drawn to it. Unfortunately they walked right through the light into something else.

If you were living in the dark ages you would not believe 99% of what you believe now(you probably would believe in ET and some form of Roman catholicism) . Why ? because the light of the gospel had all but disappeared . So throughout the ages the Lord has been restoring back the light that had dimmed in the dark ages and there is still more light to come and those whose hearts and minds are defaulted at "open to the things of God" will welcome it.

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by pcamps

If you were living in the dark ages you would not believe 99% of what you believe now(you probably would believe in ET and some form of Roman catholicism) . Why ? because the light of the gospel had all but disappeared . So throughout the ages the Lord has been restoring back the light that had dimmed in the dark ages and there is still more light to come and those whose hearts and minds are defaulted at "open to the things of God" will welcome it.

Affirmative - the things of Christ are unfolding still.

Comforter divine!

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

This confirms what I thought. Despite of all their efforts to preach UR, not a single one of them bought the UR story when they were unbelievers. If UR is the light, then none of them saw it. They saw the real light of true Gospel and salvation through repentance and belief in Christ and they were drawn to it. Unfortunately they walked right through the light into something else.

I didn't have a choice... that is the problem with belief systems... they are handed down by parents (in most cases). I was born into a church and for the first 20 years of my life I had no other religious influences... in fact, thinking "outside the church box" was forbidden or "of the devil."

So, I don't think you can stereotype URers like that. It can go both ways... I think you do yourself a disservice if you don't use your god-given intellect to figure out what is right and what is not right regarding belief. If you just believe it because the rest of the congregation or family or peer group believes it, then you may believe an untruth.

I can honestly say now that my beliefs are my own not just handed down to me by my parents. It's sad that churches (that I have come in contact with) teach that beyond what they are teaching is evil, blasphemy, etc... What they are really saying is that if you think about it and use reasoning then you are evil.... and, of course, destined to burn forever. It is a scare tactic that defines a "Hitler-type regime" of socialism, which is what Christianity has become.. it is rather sad. Control of the masses through fear of harm, real or imagined.

If God gave us a brain... I say we should use it. If God gave us legs and we just laid in bed all day.. would that be using our "gift" of appendages wisely? Just as using your intellect, reasoning, and common sense is actually using the "gift" of the brain wisely.. whereas blindly following what you are taught by others leads to "David Koresh Syndrome"... IMO

[legoman]

Originally Posted by little elmer

Confirms what I believe too - the veil has to be lifted before one can see the deeper mysteries of God's plan. In short, one has to know Him deeper.

Bingo. (Likewise for you as well pcamps).

Also these verses give an example that many are meant to be in the dark, until the time when all is revealed:

Matt 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'



That is amazing if you think about it, Christ didn't want to heal them... even though that was His stated purpose for coming! He came to save (heal) the world! Yet at that specific moment, He did not want to heal the masses. It was not their time to understand yet. But all will eventually be healed.

(BTW heal = save).

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

This confirms what I thought. Despite of all their efforts to preach UR, not a single one of them bought the UR story when they were unbelievers. If UR is the light, then none of them saw it. They saw the real light of true Gospel and salvation through repentance and belief in Christ and they were drawn to it. Unfortunately they walked right through the light into something else.

Finn - I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, particularly when I read posts like above, of what the Gospel is.

We should probably first list a few things that are often mistaken for the Gospel, but are not the Gospel:

The Gospel is not "You must see the light."
The Gospel is not "You must be drawn to the light."
The Gospel is not "You must walk through the light."
The Gospel is not "You must believe in hell."
The Gospel is not "You must be born again."
The Gospel is not "You must be filled with the Holy Spirit."
The Gospel is not "You must be baptized in the Holy Spirit."
The Gospel is not "You must speak in tongues."
The Gospel is not "You can perform miracles."
The Gospel is not "Let Jesus into your heart."
The Gospel is not "You must have a personal relationship with Christ."
The Gospel is not "Repent."
The Gospel is not "Expect a miracle."
The Gospel is not "Put Jesus on the throne of your life."
The Gospel is not "Jesus set an example for us so that we may follow him to Heaven."
The Gospel is not "Trust Jesus."
The Gospel is not "Let go and let God."
The Gospel is not "Draw nigh unto God."
The Gospel is not "Decide for Christ."
The Gospel is not "Christians should take dominion over the Earth."
The Gospel is not "Make Jesus Lord of your life."
The Gospel is not "Jesus is coming again."

The items listed above are not the Gospel. Many of those things are true (some are not), but none of them are the Good News of the Gospel. The Gospel is Good News about what Jesus did for us. Not what we do.

Paul is very clear concerning what the Gospel is:

1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Do you see the difference? It speaks about what Christ did for us, some 2,000 years ago. It's an historical event that happened before you and I were born. It is His death and resurrection for us that saves us. When we talk about UR, we're not talking about another Gospel, we're talking about who the Gospel is for. The Good News of the Gospel is for all. UR believes all will be saved by it.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm

Finn - I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, particularly when I read posts like above, of what the Gospel is.

We should probably first list a few things that are often mistaken for the Gospel, but are not the Gospel:

The Gospel is not "You must see the light."
The Gospel is not "You must be drawn to the light."
The Gospel is not "You must walk through the light."
The Gospel is not "You must believe in hell."
The Gospel is not "You must be born again."
The Gospel is not "You must be filled with the Holy Spirit."
The Gospel is not "You must be baptized in the Holy Spirit."
The Gospel is not "You must speak in tongues."
The Gospel is not "You can perform miracles."
The Gospel is not "Let Jesus into your heart."
The Gospel is not "You must have a personal relationship with Christ."
The Gospel is not "Repent."
The Gospel is not "Expect a miracle."
The Gospel is not "Put Jesus on the throne of your life."
The Gospel is not "Jesus set an example for us so that we may follow him to Heaven."
The Gospel is not "Trust Jesus."
The Gospel is not "Let go and let God."
The Gospel is not "Draw nigh unto God."
The Gospel is not "Decide for Christ."
The Gospel is not "Christians should take dominion over the Earth."
The Gospel is not "Make Jesus Lord of your life."
The Gospel is not "Jesus is coming again."

The items listed above are not the Gospel.

Any particular reason why you brought them up?

This is turning into another rabbit chase where each poster talks about a different topic.

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Any particular reason why you brought them up?

This is turning into another rabbit chase where each poster talks about a different topic.

Finn - You said the following:

They saw the real light of true Gospel and salvation....Unfortunately they walked right through the light into something else

You're telling us what we saw and walked through. Can you tell us what that true Gospel is, that you say we saw but did not believe in?

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm

Finn - You said the following:

You're telling us what we saw and walked through. Can you tell us what that true Gospel is, that you say we saw but did not believe in?

I already did. Why are you always trying to divert the conversation elsewhere?