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Old 03-18-2010, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,240,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
How would the Bible have made YOUR confusion any less you ask? Because WE "Believer's/Christians this side of the forum, believe it is the INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD, that's all.......


AGAIN........... I ask you, what cultures (name three, at least two) that recognizes the phrase "ARE WE PAYING ATTENTION" as 'slang"?


SLANG:
1. very informal usage in vocabulary and idiom that is characteristically more metaphorical, playful, elliptical, vivid, and ephemeral than ordinary language, as Hit the road.


2. (in English and some other languages) speech and writing characterized by the use of vulgar and socially taboo vocabulary and idiomatic expressions.

3. the jargon of a particular class, profession, etc.

4. the special vocabulary of thieves, vagabonds, etc.; argot.
–verb (used without object)

5. to use slang or abusive language.
–verb (used with object)

6. to assail with abusive language.


Just as a reference, in which context were YOU referring to? You said you can't find it in the Bible, perhaps you may be able to relate to one of these? 1., 2., 3., 4., 5., or 6.? Which one? Trying to understand......



Betsey
Perhaps idiom is a better description of "pay attention." Can you really pay a sum to attention? or is it more like giving attention. My husband seems to think it comes from "time is money" so focus, ie "pay attention." Sounds plausible to me. But this is so common that to Google it is useless... so while that triggered my thought perhaps it was altogether the wrong phrase to use.

Here is a better one...

"A Doubting Thomas"

Surely they didn't use that until after John 20 was written and distributed.. right?

Jesus himself said, "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?"

Who sells sparrows anymore? Apparently that was meant to be convincing to those spoken to but to me it means nothing. I leave pennies on the ground most the time and aren't sparrows the cute little birds I see outside? I don't think I've ever seen a caged one.

So this is the "conundrum" the thread was meant to discuss. Perhaps it is only a riddle to me how we are to know considering how little is recorded during that time.

So I tried to comply with your Bible requirements and to further clarify what my OP so clumsily stated.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,240,614 times
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I finally found an article on this subject. http://www.bible-researcher.com/hebraisms.html

Apparently scholars call this type of thing "semitism," "hebraisms" or the addition of hebrew concepts to greek words...

Here is an excerpt:
"The meaning of certain words. Probably the most important kind of influence exerted by the Semitic languages on New Testament Greek is in the meaning of certain theological and ethical terms. The Greek outlook on religion and morals differed greatly from that of the Jews, and Greek terms were of course used to reflect the Greek outlook. But the Septuagint translators used these terms to represent Hebrew words which reflected Jewish meanings, and thus gave these Greek terms a new meaning. It is often this new meaning which attaches to these words when they are used in the New Testament.
One example is the Greek word nomos, which is usually translated "law." In Greek the basic meaning of nomos is "custom" or "convention," for the Greeks held that law was simply codified custom. But in the Septuagint the word is used as the equivalent of the Hebrew term torah, which means strictly "instruction" and which was applied to the Books of Moses, "the Law." To the Hebrews, law meant not codified custom, but divine instruction imparted through Moses and his successors. Thus when the New Testament writers wished to speak of law, not in the sense of man's convention, but in the sense of God's revealed will, the noun nomos lay ready at hand. Much the same took place with regard to a number of words, including names and titles of divine beings, psychological terms, and words denoting such theological concepts as righteousness, mercy, sin, atonement, sacrifice, propitiation, and reconciliation."

These happen to be words or concepts that are debated heavily on this sub-forum, and I wonder if any of us, including the translators, are aware that these concepts may not have meant the same to those writing them down.

I find it interesting, also, that Jesus most likely spoke Aramaic but that his words are written in Greek. I bet we have much to learn in this area...
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Old 03-19-2010, 05:50 PM
 
5,696 posts, read 4,475,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
and aren't sparrows the cute little birds

Yes.
yes yes yes.



Sorry...
couldn't resist.

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Old 03-19-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,382,047 times
Reputation: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Yes.
yes yes yes.



Sorry...
couldn't resist.


Silly..........
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:59 PM
 
5,696 posts, read 4,475,884 times
Reputation: 4013
Fridays bring out the silly in me.
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