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Old 03-27-2010, 03:55 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,828,244 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You said yourself that there is nothing one needs to do in order to get saved. Yes? Then, but definition it is AUTOMATIC. Please look up the definition of the word 'automatic' if you don't know what it means.

And I said the URs don't believe one needs to be born again in this lifetime, which is the same thing as just said above. You believe one does not need to do anything, not even be born again because you believe everyone will be saved after death. It is the CORE UR belief, and a false teaching.
Sigh. You still don't get what it is we believe.

First this is what you said about Hitler in post #217:
Quote:
You believe everyone including Hitler, Stalin and Satan will be saved even thought they were never born again.
No qualification about "in this lifetime". Maybe that is not what you meant. But it misrepresents UR.


Secondly, salvation is not automatic. Salvation is not in your control. You mistakenly call something "automatic" because it is out of your control. Was your birth "automatic"? Ask your Mom if your birth was automatic, or if there were certain things that had to happen before you were born.

Again you are misrepresenting what I said. What I said is there is nothing you can do, in and of yourself that will cause you to be saved. But that does not mean it is "automatic". There are certain events that must and will happen before you are saved. You must have faith, believe, come to Christ, and repent. Yet you cannot do any of these things in and of yourself. You will only do them when God causes you to do them. I have presented the scriptures over and over on this, if you could address them you would have by now.

God is the one in charge of salvation here, not us.

From what I've seen of your posts Finn, you are constantly taking other peoples posts out of context, only presenting half of what they believe, while implying they think something else.
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,345 posts, read 3,611,899 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
raflm english ao
haha - I gotta' remember that one. For some here they could say "Your evil ET arrow slipped up under my helmet and caused me anguish for decades. But God removed the arrow, healed the wound and explained to me how to strap my helmet on properly".
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:03 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,828,244 times
Reputation: 647
Somehow I think Finn is out to purposely smear what URs believe and confuse other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, they don't think you need to accept Jesus at all in your lifetime.
This is true, but its only half the picture. You neglect to mention consequences of how one lives. People will reap what they sow.

Quote:
You can live and die like Satan and reject Jesus,
Sure you can. But the consequences won't be fun.

Quote:
but they are still automatically saved after death.
There you go with this "automatic" nonsense again. Salvation is a process, that takes time and experiences. When we are all finally saved, we will all have been made righteous. But we will all have to go through the necessary fire and purging and pruning before that happens.

Quote:
It is not a choise: everyone will be saved whether they like it or not.
LOL now you are just being ridiculous. Oh yeah, that's right, you believe people choose eternal torment. I suppose its something like this:

"Excuse me sir would you like to spend eternity knowing God and His endless love?"

"No thanks, I think I'll take eternal torment instead."

You've got to be kidding me. You see that example would be a real choice. But no one in their right mind would ever make that choice.

As if someone would "not like it" if they were saved.
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:14 PM
Status: "Enjoying the mountains" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
20,016 posts, read 20,566,480 times
Reputation: 28055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
A universalist is a person who believes that every human being including Hitler and Stalin, and even Satan himself will be automatically saved and to to heaven. There is no need to believe in Christ or repent your sins during your lifetime because everyone will be forced to believe after their deaths.

The huge problem with it is that the belief convinces people that they do not need Christ during their lifetimes in order to be saved, and therefore people choose to not seek the Lord. And why should they, if they think that Christ will save them after their deaths. It keeps people from coming to the Lord.

They do not believe in hell. It does not exist to them.
You are correct, they do not believe Bible and twist it around to fit what they want it to say. They have been fooled by the devil about their belief.
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,651,441 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
And I suspect that you DO believe in the adversary/opposer, just not the traditional near-almighty devil and the "Helel son of Shahar" myth, right?
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:08 PM
 
5,498 posts, read 2,770,589 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
You are correct, they do not believe Bible and twist it around to fit what they want it to say. They have been fooled by the devil about their belief.
Then answer me this - is God able to take away sin?
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,651,441 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
You know, you guys stated something that I had actually given thought to some years ago, but you had put it in very clear terms about the Jewish concept of satan not being a spiritual being. You had some links if I recall. Can you repost? thanx!
I don't remember which one I posted but I like this perspective:
Jews Muse: Does Satan exist? A Jewish Perspective.... (http://www.jewsmuse.com/2009/03/does-satan-exist-jewish-perspective.html - broken link)

Short and to the point...

and others Jewish perspectives:
http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq...faq/12-35.html
http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html (I like this one... there is chocolate in it!)

Last edited by katjonjj; 03-27-2010 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: decided to add a few more links...
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,271 posts, read 3,595,573 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yep I do believe those you list (other than satan who I don't believe even exists) will be saved and you believe they are burning as we type with no hope for escape.

Here is what you said and I have put in red where you are misrepresenting universalists:

Funny isn't it that most of what you said has nothing to do with Universalism but everything to do with your own twisted thoughts...

You don't even qualify it with "my understanding is:" but just spout these lies as if they are truth.

How about if I say that ETers (those who believe people burn forever in hell) all believe that God is evil and that justice to God is torturing people that he created because he is not powerful enough to change them himself... he created flawed beings so he could torture them for eternity....

Is that what you believe or is that what I think you believe? Because in my mind that is what your belief amounts to...


YOU SAID: Yep I do believe those you list (other than satan who I don't believe even exists) will be saved and you believe they are burning as we type with no hope for escape.




O.K. that's what YOU said ( I'm putting it in green)! You believe in Jesus but not what He has to say about Satan? Is that why you don't believe the Bible? Because there's no credibility to what Jesus Himself says?

With all due respect, you're sometimes Agnostic, Preterist, Universalist, etc......I don't understand. So you do believe He's coming again? Cause correct me if I'm wrong, I thought Preterist believes ALL things have been fulfilled in 70 A.D.? Including having came already and no second coming?

You following me....or, are you just as confuse as me? I'm not sure in what context you want us to follow you. In other words, which p.o.v. are you representing right now?

Universalist believes in a second coming, true? Though they believe EVERYONE is save in the end; they believe in a SECOND APPEARANCE of Our Lord Jesus Christ. They HAVE to, or how else do EVERYBODY gets saved? Yes?

But you don't believe the Bible, yet you believe EVERYTHING has been completed in and/or around 70 AD...yet, you say you are a UR? So everything's been accomplished for you, including His second coming, there's no hell to save you from........I'm not sure why you're still here. I mean, I have an idea, but it has a lot to do with the same SATAN you think does'nt exist!

Question: To whom does your allegiance lies? That's why it's said time and time again, God's not the author of confusion...........
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:21 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,331,632 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
raflm english ao
Is that an english "a" followed by an "r"...LOL
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:24 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,331,632 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't remember which one I posted but I like this perspective:
Jews Muse: Does Satan exist? A Jewish Perspective.... (http://www.jewsmuse.com/2009/03/does-satan-exist-jewish-perspective.html - broken link)

Short and to the point...

and others Jewish perspectives:
S.C.J. FAQ: Section 12.35. Jewish Thought: What does Judaism believe about Satan?
Does Judaism Believe in Satan? (I like this one... there is chocolate in it!)
Thanks, sis' ummm, tastes good!
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