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Old 03-24-2010, 08:03 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
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God loves you, even to the point of letting you put yourself in torment forever! (Yeah that's real love )

Salvation is done completely by God, except for the part that you have to do yourself! (Then its not done completely by God, is it? )

You have to "accept Christ" of your own free will to be saved (Then wouldn't you be able to boast about it? )

God is in control and wants to save all people, except that He allows Satan & man's free will to 'thwart' his desire to save all people (Then He doesn't really want to save all people, does he? )

Humans can cause other humans to be lost forever (Then God is not really in control, is he? )

People choose to go to hell (Oh really? People prefer to torture themselves forever, instead of going into the loving embrace of God? Yeah makes perfect sense... What about those who never heard of hell? Yeah, they choose to go to hell too... )

Satan is deceiving many people and leading them into hell, many more will end up in hell than heaven (then doesn't that make Satan more victorious than God? )

God only "allows" Satan to deceive people (then are you saying God wants people to go into hell? )



THINK. USE YOUR BRAIN. GOD GAVE IT TO YOU FOR A REASON.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 859,241 times
Reputation: 134
First things first!! How are you lego??? Good to see your still fighting the good fight!! Anyway, my "BRAIN" is telling me that if God was controlling "ALL THINGS" and not "allowing" other forces to do their dirty work then your OP would have been more caring and kind to ALL!!!!


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:34 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,688,179 times
Reputation: 639
Hi legoman,

While we often agree with one another and as I am writing this I know I have to keep an eye on my own words but I do not see that this is necessarily an indicator that people are not using their brains.

For instance, your first sentence needs to be logically approached. Why does Gods love in that perspective only cease if he allows us to choose eternal torment?

It is just as logically sound to say that if God loved us then he would not have allowed us to choose anything but the right path in the first place.

I do not see the logic holding up any greater when it is said that Gods love willed a child to be raped because he is in control.

You can take the position that since God is in control then it was Gods will for that to happen, but to make the case that something like that is more loving really doesn't hold up very well.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:38 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
First things first!! How are you lego??? Good to see your still fighting the good fight!! Anyway, my "BRAIN" is telling me that if God was controlling "ALL THINGS" and not "allowing" other forces to do their dirty work then your OP would have been more caring and kind to ALL!!!!


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8

I am ok, just a bit disheartened recently. Yesterday was not really a good day for me. Today is looking better though. But you are right perhaps I should have been more caring in my OP.

Yet God is indeed in control of all things. I hope you realize this... at least it appears you are using your BRAIN! If I recall correctly you don't believe in eternal torment anyway...

What disheartens me is when people don't use their brain and proclaim things like:
"God is loving by sending people to hell"
"Salvation is of God but we have to do our part"
"Satan leads people into hell but Satan cannot do anything God doesn't allow"

Peace out.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 859,241 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Hi legoman,

While we often agree with one another and as I am writing this I know I have to keep an eye on my own words but I do not see that this is necessarily an indicator that people are not using their brains.

For instance, your first sentence needs to be logically approached. Why does Gods love in that perspective only cease if he allows us to choose eternal torment?

It is just as logically sound to say that if God loved us then he would not have allowed us to choose anything but the right path in the first place.

I do not see the logic holding up any greater when it is said that Gods love willed a child to be raped because he is in control.

You can take the position that since God is in control then it was Gods will for that to happen, but to make the case that something like that is more loving really doesn't hold up very well.
Very well put, Phazel!!!



GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:41 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Hi legoman,

While we often agree with one another and as I am writing this I know I have to keep an eye on my own words but I do not see that this is necessarily an indicator that people are not using their brains.

For instance, your first sentence needs to be logically approached. Why does Gods love in that perspective only cease if he allows us to choose eternal torment?

It is just as logically sound to say that if God loved us then he would not have allowed us to choose anything but the right path in the first place.

I do not see the logic holding up any greater when it is said that Gods love willed a child to be raped because he is in control.

You can take the position that since God is in control then it was Gods will for that to happen, but to make the case that something like that is more loving really doesn't hold up very well.
Sure we can debate about whether it is logical that God is in control of very disturbing and evil situations that happen on this earth.

But I find it is simply easier to look at the alternative. Is it better if God is NOT in control? That to me is a very scary thought. If God is not in control, then we are all doomed anyway. Evil will win.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 859,241 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I am ok, just a bit disheartened recently. Yesterday was not really a good day for me. Today is looking better though. But you are right perhaps I should have been more caring in my OP.

Yet God is indeed in control of all things. I hope you realize this... at least it appears you are using your BRAIN! If I recall correctly you don't believe in eternal torment anyway...

What disheartens me is when people don't use their brain and proclaim things like:
"God is loving by sending people to hell"
"Salvation is of God but we have to do our part"
"Satan leads people into hell but Satan cannot do anything God doesn't allow"

Peace out.
You are correct ET is not any part of what I believe!! I myself am more than guilty of being unkind in some of my posts but I have also learned so much from everyone, and the first to admit that my hostility and eagerness to "SHOW YOU" have been eliminated by my new approach. Anyhow, I know it can suck but keep your head up because God always finds a way!!!

And Phazel, was gonna rep but they want me to spread some!!LOL


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:51 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Hi legoman,

For instance, your first sentence needs to be logically approached. Why does Gods love in that perspective only cease if he allows us to choose eternal torment?
Let me address this specifically, since it was in my OP.

The first sentence from my OP:
God loves you, even to the point of letting you put yourself in torment forever! (Yeah that's real love )

The point here is that real love ALWAYS protects. Real love does not keep a record of wrongs. Real love is being kind. Real love doesn't fail. (Read 1 Cor 13 - you know it).

So given that is the biblical definition of love, it is illogical to say that God is loving people by letting them torment themselves forever. Because that would mean God is NOT protecting them, IS keeping a record of wrongs, and is NOT being kind to them. FOR ETERNITY.

Quote:
It is just as logically sound to say that if God loved us then he would not have allowed us to choose anything but the right path in the first place.
Yes you could say that, but only if you don't realize that God has a good and loving purpose for letting us temporarily experience evil. (Temporarily is the key word here).
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:53 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
Reputation: 682
Now this doesn't mean that God doesn't discipline us or train us or allow us to reap what we sow.

It just means that when God allows us to reap what we sow, He is doing it for a good and loving reason: so that we will learn how to be righteous.


But nothing positive can be learned from an eternity of torment, because IT NEVER ENDS.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:56 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,688,179 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Sure we can debate about whether it is logical that God is in control of very disturbing and evil situations that happen on this earth.

But I find it is simply easier to look at the alternative. Is it better if God is NOT in control? That to me is a very scary thought. If God is not in control, then we are all doomed anyway. Evil will win.

I see what your saying, what I am pointing out is that the nature of that control is what defines what is true, not whether it is easier to look at the alternative.

I find no encouragment in the idea that God is in control and wills my daughter to get raped for her own good. A loving God eh?

Perhaps that is true (I do not believe it is), but lets not pretend that is easy.
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