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Old 03-29-2010, 01:08 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,717 times
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Revelation 14 strikes me as a type of the first fruit being picked/chosen and then a general harvest.

Has anybody got any other verses/scripture that point to this happening?

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

To me when it says here is the patience of the saints it means that the patience of the saints is in that place (drinking the wrath of God in the presence of the lamb) and I think it is related to this verse

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The first fruit enter into rest and do not need to labour through the second death.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Revelation 14 strikes me as a type of the first fruit being picked/chosen and then a general harvest.

Has anybody got any other verses/scripture that point to this happening?

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

To me when it says here is the patience of the saints it means that the patience of the saints is in that place (drinking the wrath of God in the presence of the lamb) and I think it is related to this verse

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The first fruit enter into rest and do not need to labour through the second death.
Because I am a preterist.. I also wonder why the first fruits would extend to now.. wouldn't now be part of the general harvest rather than the first fruits? I think of the first fruits of a harvest as being a small portion of the actual harvest. Wouldn't that mean the 100's first converted before the destruction of Jerusalem were the "first fruits" and everyone after that is the general harvest?

Anyway.. thanks for the post Meerkat. I always thought that everyone will go through the second death but that it won't hurt some while others will have some measure of suffering.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:42 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,717 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Because I am a preterist.. I also wonder why the first fruits would extend to now.. wouldn't now be part of the general harvest rather than the first fruits? I think of the first fruits of a harvest as being a small portion of the actual harvest. Wouldn't that mean the 100's first converted before the destruction of Jerusalem were the "first fruits" and everyone after that is the general harvest?

Anyway.. thanks for the post Meerkat. I always thought that everyone will go through the second death but that it won't hurt some while others will have some measure of suffering.
Kat,

Preterism is very convincing up to a point ......... what I believe is that the physical prophecies that were directed at the Jews both in the OT and NT were all filled in 70AD and that there is a spiritual fulfillment is happening and is to happen ie actual resurrection in a spiritual body and the Revelation is a combined physical prophecy to the physical Jews and has a spiritual message to any who will hear (spiritually) JMO

I agree that the second death is a going through not a destination.

This psalm makes me think of the second death lately

Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Kat,

Preterism is very convincing up to a point ......... what I believe is that the physical prophecies that were directed at the Jews both in the OT and NT were all filled in 70AD and that there is a spiritual fulfillment is happening and is to happen ie actual resurrection in a spiritual body and the Revelation is a combined physical prophecy to the physical Jews and has a spiritual message to any who will hear (spiritually) JMO
I don't agree but respect your point of view.

Quote:
I agree that the second death is a going through not a destination.

This psalm makes me think of the second death lately

Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
I just read that the other day and was thinking the same thing! There was another Psalm too that reminded me of the second death (well MY view of the second death anyway), I will see if I can find it again.

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Old 03-29-2010, 05:56 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,717 times
Reputation: 385
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't agree but respect your point of view.
At some stage I would like to explore preterism relating to judgment of all good and bad, and resurrection ------
Because I am very hazy on that ... I would like both your and Sciotamicks views on it but not in an antagonistic environment - I find I can not focus when there is too much antagonism and name calling, and sometimes I need things repeated a lot, especially as at a young age I was indoctrinated with the rapture/hell fire/ futuristic mindset and it lingers at a subconscious level.


Quote:
I just read that the other day and was thinking the same thing! There was another Psalm too that reminded me of the second death (well MY view of the second death anyway), I will see if I can find it again.

Please, would like to see it.
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
At some stage I would like to explore preterism relating to judgment of all good and bad, and resurrection ------
Because I am very hazy on that ... I would like both your and Sciotamicks views on it but not in an antagonistic environment - I find I can not focus when there is too much antagonism and name calling, and sometimes I need things repeated a lot, especially as at a young age I was indoctrinated with the rapture/hell fire/ futuristic mindset and it lingers at a subconscious level.
I would love to discuss it.. However sciota and I on the same "team" would be awkward.... or could be volatile at the very least...LOL as seen in earlier threads.
But you never know. I too was indoctrinated (from birth - 30) with futurism. I read every Left Behind book and own the DVD's too! So I understand how it lingers!

I personally think UR and Preterism (full as opposed to partial or hyper) go well together and helped me see the true value in loving God and each other. The last 4 years have been heaven compared to the first 30!

Quote:
Please, would like to see it.
I still can't find it... I was reading through Psalm 139 earlier today and realized it wasn't all about proving abortion is wrong.. that darn indoctrination! I like Psalm 86 too..

11Teach me your way, O Lord,
and I will walk in your truth;
give me an undivided heart,
that I may fear your name.
12I will praise you, O Lord my God, with all my heart;
I will glorify your name forever.
13For great is your love toward me;
you have delivered me from the depths of the grave [Sheol].

And Psalm 130 is great... I really wish I could remember.... there are so many.

I will keep looking.
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