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Jesus said there was a need for a physical resurrection for God to be God of the living.
Jesus was not saying that when we die our souls live on in a spirit world. If that were the case what need would there be of the resurrection?
That passage is often used against "soul sleep" but actually it completely backfires UNLESS one believes that the resurrection Jesus spoke of had already taken place for A, I, J. If AIJ are already with God prior to being resurrected then Jesus' argument crumbles to pieces. The only way around "soul sleep" is to prove that people are resurrected now or at death as opposed to sometime off in the future (I don't rule that out as a possibility). Otherwise, that passage is ironclad proof of soul sleep.
I don't see where Jesus said "physical" resurrection.
That passage is often used against "soul sleep" but actually it completely backfires UNLESS one believes that the resurrection Jesus spoke of had already taken place for A, I, J. If AIJ are already with God prior to being resurrected then Jesus' argument crumbles to pieces. The only way around "soul sleep" is to prove that people are resurrected now or at death as opposed to sometime off in the future (I don't rule that out as a possibility). Otherwise, that passage is ironclad proof of soul sleep.
I don't see where Jesus said "physical" resurrection.
Jesus said God is not the God of the dead but of the living. A, I & J are dead. Hence they need to be brought back to life to be living.
The whole discussion between is Jesus and the Sadducees. The Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection. They probably believed that when one dies one continues living in some other form. Jesus put that to rest in proving there has to be a resurrection. In the Greek "resurrection" is "up-standing-from dead-ones." So there is a standing up from among the dead or resurrection. The bible knows nothing of a resurrection of a spirit or soul but does about the whole person.
They came to Jesus with a trick question. Not believing in the resurrection, they wanted Jesus to say something they could refute. Even so, Jesus did not ignore or belittle their question. He answered it, and then he went beyond it to the real issue.
Thank you all for your answers. I am still pondering the significance here. What did Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have in common besides a belief in God?
They were chosen by God for a purpose to bring about the redemption of all. ------> Jesus the seed
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
They all died. Therefore they must be made alive again since God is not the God of a bunch of dead people. It proves there is a resurrection of the dead.
Thank you all for your answers. I am still pondering the significance here. What did Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have in common besides a belief in God?
BLOODLINE starting from Shem (postdiluvian) and ultimately to Mary who gave birth to the Saviour of Mankind. Jesus did not have an earthly father, therefore, we look to Mary as the connecting point.
They came to Jesus with a trick question. Not believing in the resurrection, they wanted Jesus to say something they could refute. Even so, Jesus did not ignore or belittle their question. He answered it, and then he went beyond it to the real issue.
They all died. Therefore they must be made alive again since God is not the God of a bunch of dead people. It proves there is a resurrection of the dead.
I kinda lost the thread so forgive me being behind..
I think what you say make sense if you believe in the resurrection but isn't he talking about it to those who don't (The Sadducees)?
So those simply dead doesn't seem to answer why that was supposed to prove the resurrection. IMO
Here is Exodus 3:6 He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
The fact that God said that is significant how?
So I pulled up all the passages with those three names in them, here are a few:
Luke 13:28-30 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
Acts 7:30-37 "After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice: I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.' Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look. "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground. I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.' "This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, 'Who made you ruler and judge?' He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush. He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the desert. "This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'
Deut 9:27 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Overlook the stubbornness of this people, their wickedness and their sin.
Deut. 34:4 Then the LORD said to him, "This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, 'I will give it to your descendants.' I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it."
I kinda lost the thread so forgive me being behind..
I think what you say make sense if you believe in the resurrection but isn't he talking about it to those who don't (The Sadducees)?
Yes, He is talking to those who don't believe in a ressurection. He is using reason + one scripture to prove them wrong.
Quote:
So those simply dead doesn't seem to answer why that was supposed to prove the resurrection. IMO
Pretend you don't beliieve dead people can be made alive again and Jesus is talking to you.
If you accept these three premises:
(1) God is the God of the living, not the dead
(2) God is the God of AIJ
(3) AIJ died
Then AIJ must be made alive again. There is no other alternative.
Quote:
Here is Exodus 3:6 He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
The fact that God said that is significant how?
I think Jesus could have used any dead persons of whom God says He is their God. Jesus claims that that vierse is about the resurrection in that God claims to be the God of some dead people, and God is not the God of dead people, so those dead people must live again.
Quote:
So I pulled up all the passages with those three names in them, here are a few:
Luke 13:28-30 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
Acts 7:30-37 "After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice: I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.' Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look. "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground. I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.' "This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, 'Who made you ruler and judge?' He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush. He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the desert. "This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'
Deut 9:27 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Overlook the stubbornness of this people, their wickedness and their sin.
Deut. 34:4 Then the LORD said to him, "This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, 'I will give it to your descendants.' I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it."
What do you all think?
I think those will be fullfilled in the resurrection, but I don't think those statements are necessary for Jesus to have used AIJ in his proof. All I think that is necessary for His proof is for God to have said "I am the God of [some dead person]"
Yes, He is talking to those who don't believe in a ressurection. He is using reason + one scripture to prove them wrong.
Pretend you don't beliieve dead people can be made alive again and Jesus is talking to you.
If you accept these three premises:
(1) God is the God of the living, not the dead
(2) God is the God of AIJ
(3) AIJ died
Then AIJ must be made alive again. There is no other alternative.
I think Jesus could have used any dead persons of whom God says He is their God. Jesus claims that that vierse is about the resurrection in that God claims to be the God of some dead people, and God is not the God of dead people, so those dead people must live again.
I think those will be fullfilled in the resurrection, but I don't think those statements are necessary for Jesus to have used AIJ in his proof. All I think that is necessary for His proof is for God to have said "I am the God of [some dead person]"
Ok I see what you are saying... God is the God of the living so by God saying he is the God of A, I , J... then then must be alive...
Thanks for the patience! I always took that to mean that God is God of the living so that once you were dead... well you were dead..
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