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I posted the original post of this thread in March 2010 and thought that in view of the recent threads on Sabbath keeping, and keeping the Ten Commandments that I would direct peoples attention to it.
As noted in the section on the Ten Commandments, while the Mosiac Law as a whole was given only to the Jews and is not operational during the church-age, the Ten Commandments themselves have always applied to the human race in general both to believer and unbeliever, as a set of principles designed for the protection and orderly function of the human race during human history. The Ten Commandments or Decalogue summarize God's principles with regard to freedom. They are in fact a system of spirituality-morality.
The Church does not observe the Saturday sabbath that the Jews were commanded to under the Mosaic Covenant which was a Covenant of works and for which God made the divine provision of a weekly day of physical rest.
The Church -age believer's Sabbath is Jesus Christ Himself. Matt. 11:28 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
I posted the original post of this thread in March 2010 and thought that in view of the recent threads on Sabbath keeping, and keeping the Ten Commandments that I would direct peoples attention to it.
As noted in the section on the Ten Commandments, while the Mosiac Law as a whole was given only to the Jews and is not operational during the church-age, the Ten Commandments themselves have always applied to the human race in general both to believer and unbeliever, as a set of principles designed for the protection and orderly function of the human race during human history. The Ten Commandments or Decalogue summarize God's principles with regard to freedom. They are in fact a system of spirituality-morality.
The Church does not observe the Saturday sabbath that the Jews were commanded to under the Mosaic Covenant which was a Covenant of works and for which God made the divine provision of a weekly day of physical rest.
The Church -age believer's Sabbath is Jesus Christ Himself. Matt. 11:28 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
You are confusing the Ten with the Nohidic laws...
In Judaism, the Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach) form the major part of the Noachide Laws, or Noahide Code. This code is a set of moral imperatives that, according to the Talmud, were given by God as a binding set of laws for the "children of Noah" – that is, all of mankind. According to religious Judaism, any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a righteous gentile, and is assured of a place in the world to come (Olam Haba), the final reward of the righteous. Adherents are often called "B'nei Noach" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and may often network in Jewish synagogues.
The seven laws listed by the Tosefta and the Talmud are
Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law
Noachide Laws comprise the six laws which were given to Adam in the Garden of Eden, according to the Talmud's interpretation of Gen 2:16, and a seventh one, which was added after the Flood of Noah. Later, at the Revelation at Sinai, the Seven Laws of Noah were re-given to humanity and embedded in the 613 Laws given to the Children of Israel along with the Ten Commandments, which are part of, and not separate from, the 613 mitzvot. These laws are derived from the Torah. According to religious Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews and are therefore binding only upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors. At the same time, at Mount Sinai, the Children of Israel were given the obligation to teach other nations the embedded Noachide Laws. These laws also affect Jewish law in a number of ways. - Noahide laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You are confusing the Ten with the Nohidic laws...
In Judaism, the Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach) form the major part of the Noachide Laws, or Noahide Code. This code is a set of moral imperatives that, according to the Talmud, were given by God as a binding set of laws for the "children of Noah" – that is, all of mankind. According to religious Judaism, any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a righteous gentile, and is assured of a place in the world to come (Olam Haba), the final reward of the righteous. Adherents are often called "B'nei Noach" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and may often network in Jewish synagogues.
The seven laws listed by the Tosefta and the Talmud are
Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law
Noachide Laws comprise the six laws which were given to Adam in the Garden of Eden, according to the Talmud's interpretation of Gen 2:16, and a seventh one, which was added after the Flood of Noah. Later, at the Revelation at Sinai, the Seven Laws of Noah were re-given to humanity and embedded in the 613 Laws given to the Children of Israel along with the Ten Commandments, which are part of, and not separate from, the 613 mitzvot. These laws are derived from the Torah. According to religious Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews and are therefore binding only upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors. At the same time, at Mount Sinai, the Children of Israel were given the obligation to teach other nations the embedded Noachide Laws. These laws also affect Jewish law in a number of ways. - Noahide laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As previously stated, the Ten Commandments are designed to perpetuate freedom and the orderly function of mankind. Except for the Saturday Sabbath these commandments are still operational. And they are encapsulated in the two great commands which Jesus gave. Matt. 22:37 And He said to Him, " 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38] This is the great and foremost commandment. 39] The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
If you as a believer love God, you will be observing the first five commandments. But as stated, the Church-age believer's Sabbath is resting in Jesus Christ rather than observing Saturday as a day of rest. The believer is to continually rest in Jesus.
Whether you are a believer or not, the 5th through 10th commandments are designed to protect human freedom. No one has the right to murder, to commit adultery, to steal, to bear false witness, or to covet what belongs to your neighbor.
Here in Romans 13:9 [that's New Testament] is what it means to love your neighbor. 'For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Concerning the Principle of the Decalogue, Robert Thieme JR. writes;
While the Ten Commandments were given specifically to the Jews as Codex I of the Mosaic Law, and while they also fulfill the spiritual purpose of proving that man is a sinner and needs a Savior (Gal. 3:19-25), the principles contained in these divine laws are designed to protect the human race from self-destruction and to perpetuate the human race during the course of the angelic conflict. Absolute and unchanging, they have been given to ensure freedom for evangelism in every generation and to provide a FRAMEWORK for human happiness. Now, keeping the Mosaic Law in itself is not happiness. The Law merely provides a ''house'' where happiness can live and be sustained. (The Ten Commandments, R. B. Thieme, JR. p. 6,7.)
The Gentiles were never the recipients of the Law. Deuteronomy 4:8; Romans 2:12-14.
The Church-age believer is not under the Law. Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:19.
Hi Mike,
Are sinners 'under the condemnation of the law?'
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but is for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[1Ti 1:9-10 KJV]
Since Jesus Christ fulfilled the law in its entirety, the law does not carry over into the church-age. Hebrews 10:4 'For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.'
Perhaps Christ is the 'end' in the following sense:
1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
The law ends when you stop breaking it?
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
The law ends when you walk in the Spirit and not in the sinful flesh? Please explain the following:
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is {present tense, not done away} good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is {Again, present tense} not made for a righteous man, but is for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Are you saying (A) there is no law and (B) it does not apply to those in 1 Tim. 1:9-10. Please define 'lawless,' and 'sinners.'
Mike that's the scripture as it is written. It's so sad to see those who deny it and try to change it to fit what they want it to say. May God help them to see the light of the truth of His word.
Hi Mike,
Are sinners 'under the condemnation of the law?'
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but is for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[1Ti 1:9-10 KJV]
Shalom,
Tom
So those who are trying to follow the law today are "not Righteous", " lawless and disobedient", "ungodly", "sinners", "unholy and profane", "murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers", "manslayers", "whoremongers", "them that defile themselves with mankind", "menstealers", "liars", and "perjured persons"! I will have to agree with God's word here. Thanks for pointing this out for us.
Hi Mike,
Are sinners 'under the condemnation of the law?'
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but is for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[1Ti 1:9-10 KJV]
Shalom,
Tom
Try to understand that I am not talking about being under the Law. I tried to make that clear. The Commandments come down to us not as part of the Mosaic Law as such, but rather as general principles of freedom for the protection and orderly function of the human race.
It is not okay to go out and murder someone because Jesus fulfilled the law. Nor is it okay to steal. These things violate another persons freedom.
As for who is under condemnation, all unbelievers remain under condemnation. But no believer is under condemnation.
Try to understand that I am not talking about being under the Law. I tried to make that clear. The Commandments come down to us not as part of the Mosaic Law as such, but rather as general principles of freedom for the protection and orderly function of the human race.
It is not okay to go out and murder someone because Jesus fulfilled the law. Nor is it okay to steal. These things violate another persons freedom.
As for who is under condemnation, all unbelievers remain under condemnation. But no believer is under condemnation.
Perhaps Christ is the 'end' in the following sense:
1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
The law ends when you stop breaking it?
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
The law ends when you walk in the Spirit and not in the sinful flesh? Please explain the following:
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is {present tense, not done away} good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is {Again, present tense} not made for a righteous man, but is for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Are you saying (A) there is no law and (B) it does not apply to those in 1 Tim. 1:9-10. Please define 'lawless,' and 'sinners.'
Shalom,
Tom
I am saying that the Mosaic Law with its many regulations are not given to the Church because the Mosaic Law was given to Israel to show that man cannot keep the Law. The Law pointed out the need for a Savior.
Romans 6:14 states that we are not under the Law. 'For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.'
The Church-age believer is under another law: not the law of sin and death, but the law of the Spirit of life which is in Christ Jesus. We are under this spiritual law as believers. Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. The Mosaic Law could not free us from bondage to sin, but God accomplished deliverance over sin through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross.
We are all sinners. Saints are simply saved sinners.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-02-2012 at 06:27 PM..
Reason: Spelling correction
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