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First you say you don't believe in God's judgment (and your source is "you"), then you insinuate that you believe God's Word (which teaches God's judgment).
Correct me if I misunderstood your posts.
Yes, you have misunderstood my posts. Start over and try again.
All of this conjecture is based on an addition to the Gospels. The only beings who are verbally disqualifying folks who believe otherwise are people like you. Tell me this mike ; how can you tell whether the Gospel's have been trimmed or modified ? Deny it was men who put the Gospels together as we know them . I know one thing for fact Mike . Jesus Christ acknowledged the OT as cannon. To this day no one has had the Authority do do so with the NT although the KJV tries to. Only Revelation is written with a curse included for adding or subtracting.
You're belief is that the current content of the New Testament is free from addition or subtraction . What is truly truly truly disturbing about this is that if this argument were taking place in person in other time frame earlier in history you and those who you break bread could be either at war or burning folks like me at the stake. Care to dispute that ? What you seem to be missing is that your kind of all or nothing approach is exactly what earthly rulers needed to control the people be they Catholic or Protestant . This method of exclusion is criminal and it invites all of the crimes listed in the bible back into the fold. See how that works ?
All of this being There are ways of interpreting the Virgin birth that can be fruitful , but to exclude a person from being saved because they do not buy it face value is as I said criminal.
In denying the virgin birth of Jesus, a person does not believe the word of God and does not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and therefore has an improper object of their faith. In denying the virgin birth, a person shows that they don't understand the issue involved in salvation and why Christ HAD to be virgin born.
In denying the virgin birth of Jesus, a person does not believe the word of God and does not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and therefore has an improper object of their faith. In denying the virgin birth, a person shows that they don't understand the issue involved in salvation and why Christ HAD to be virgin born.
Church Dogma held dear by the state in order to control people. Your views in action would crucify a person fully endowed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It's not like YHVH isn't just. He has turned a good portion of the religion into a Christian version of Judaism as it was 2000 years ago. History rhymes.
Whatever the building God is preparing for us, it has some relation to the future eons. It is not telling us how long the building will last but rather is telling us of a relational aspect it enjoys to the coming eons. It is eonian.
Just as God is said to be "the eonian God" in Romans 16:26, this is not telling us how long God will live. It is not saying he will live only for the eons. But it is telling us of His relationship to the eons.
It continues to elude you that an eon no matter how long it lasts, is still temporary. The passage distinquishes between things which are temporary and things which are eternal. It is establishing a contrast between them.
2 Cor. 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
This link addresses 2 Cor 4:18 and also Romans 16:26.
Church Dogma held dear by the state in order to control people. Your views in action would crucify a person fully endowed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It's not like YHVH isn't just. He has turned a good portion of the religion into a Christian version of Judaism as it was 2000 years ago. History rhymes.
You deny the virgin birth of Christ and you deny that the New Testament is the word of God. You do not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
Last edited by Michael Way; 04-12-2010 at 03:12 PM..
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Acts 16:31 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.'
John 1:12 'But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name.'
To reject the offer leads to this...
John 10:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins.''
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (the command to believe the Gospel; to obey the Gospel as per 2 Thess. 1:8) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''
2 Thess. 1:8 'Dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.' 9) And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
The warning has gone out.
'He who has ears to hear, let him hear.' Matt. 11:15.
Mike, typical "traditions of men" answer, however, look at what scripture really says.
Regarding Acts 16:31, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,” this was not talking about spiritual salvation! The prison guard was awakened and afraid of an earthquake. He was also afraid and trembling because he thought the prisoners were going to escape, and for this he was going to kill himself. That’s what they did back then for some reason, either for shame, or they would be executed anyway, or something. Paul told him not to harm himself because they had not escaped.
He was afraid for his life, and that’s why he asked, “What must I do to be saved?” He was not asking about his eternal destination! Church never teaches that part! That’s why there’s confusion about “and thy house!” He and his family were saved from the earthquake, and the prisioners didn't kill him so they could escape, and he didn't kill himself. They were told to believe in Jesus for that protection, and He protected them. He and his family were so thankful when they witnessed Jesus’ love and provision for them, that they became followers and got baptized.
26And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
Regarding John 1:12, don’t forget John1:13, that tells us we are born children of God, of God, not of our own will, so there goes the theory of being required to make the wise choice and accept an offer.
John 1:12-13:
12But as many as received him, to them gave he powerto become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Regarding the “reject” verses,
“Traditions of men” never understood the following truths:
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Mike, whether you believe the Bible or not is your choice, but the Bible clearly tells us what the definition of eternal life is, and what the definition of condemnation is. Eternal life is knowing Him. Condemnation is not loving Him. This says nothing about an afterlife destination!! Some abide in Him, know him/ have eternal life now, and some won't know Him/have eternal life until later, when they are cleansed of their sins BY God and are born OF God, according to His will.
John 3:
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. – This means “should know him", according to scripture.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already(This means they don’t love Him) because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
'He who has ears to hear, let him hear.' Matt. 11:15
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 04-12-2010 at 04:27 PM..
Mike, typical "traditions of men" answer, however, look at what scripture really says.
Regarding Acts 16:31, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,” this was not talking about spiritual salvation! The prison guard was awakened and afraid of an earthquake. He was also afraid and trembling because he thought the prisoners were going to escape, and for this he was going to kill himself. That’s what they did back then for some reason, either for shame, or they would be executed anyway, or something. Paul told him not to harm himself because they had not escaped.
He was afraid for his life, and that’s why he asked, “What must I do to be saved?” He was not asking about his eternal destination! Church never teaches that part! That’s why there’s confusion about “and thy house!” He and his family were saved from the earthquake, and the prisioners didn't kill him so they could escape, and he didn't kill himself. They were told to believe in Jesus for that protection, and He protected them. He and his family were so thankful when they witnessed Jesus’ love and provision for them, that they became followers and got baptized.
26And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
I noticed you left out verse 25. Why? Could it be because it pours cold water on your interpretation?
I noticed you left out verse 25. Why? Could it be because it pours cold water on your interpretation?
Verse 25: And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
I have no idea how that has any bearing on what I said. Can you explain how that verse says anything about the watered-down gospel of Jesus merely giving us an offer, instead of fulfilling God's will to save all men? This is what Mike555 and I were discussing.
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 04-12-2010 at 04:32 PM..
Reason: spelling
Verse 25: And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
I have no idea how that has any bearing on what I said. Can you explain how that verse says anything about the watered-down gospel of Jesus merely giving us an offer, instead of fulfilling God's will to save all men?
If the jailer had been hearing Paul & Silas praying & singing praises to God, your comment...
Quote:
He was afraid for his life, and that’s why he asked, “What must I do to be saved?” He was not asking about his eternal destination!
doesn't hold water. It makes more sense that he was asking about salvation, rather than how to save his own skin, especially in light of verse 28. Plus, how would Paul & Silas be able to save him from the wrath of his superiors? Every commentary I read says the same. Do you have a source for your interpretation?
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