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ever since I was chastised by a very holy man for presuming that Hitler was in hell, I no longer make those judgements about other's eternal salvation.
I believe in some countries ( greece I think ) Pontius Pilate is venerated as a saint.
Oh but Judas did have a choice in the matter,he chose to deceive.
And if he hadn't, then Jesus would not have been crucified, would have lived who knows how long a life of preaching/teaching, and nobody would have died for people's sins, making God's plan for Jesus defunct.
Then what?
You're sure this dude had a choice? God sat there and said, "Well, I'll make this one guy who will be the vehicle for the crucifixion of my son, hence saving humanity...but if he doesn't, well then, okay, I'm flexible"?
p.s. It was weird to see this thread pop up again...I posted it so long ago!
I'm going to cast my vote as among those "who just don't know". There doesn't seem to be enough information given in the Bible to know if Judas went to hell, or heaven. There's hints to support both arguements. For example:
John17:12 (Jesus' words)
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."
Here Jesus apparently was praying to the Father for His disciples (the apostles), and inferred that one of them had been lost...
HOWEVER....in the Book of Revelation....the apostle John describing the New Jerusalem...the Holy City of Heaven:
Revelation 21
13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
It says there's the names of 12 apostles, not 11. Why put the name of someone on the very foundation of that holy city, unless that someone had been SAVED???
(Ok...I suppose they COULD put the name of a lost person on that foundation...but it just strikes me as being improbable...)
Hmmm.....could the name of that 12th apostle on the foundation be.... Mathias.... instead of Judas? Mathias was named an apostle to replace Judas: Acts 1:24-26
24And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Mathias was "numbered" with the other eleven...he became one of the twelve.
I think this is one of those questions that we just cannot answer for sure one way or the other....that we just don't know...I'd hate to say adamantly that Judas was, or was not, saved....then go to heaven and have to eat crow.....
Bud
Quote:
Hmmm.....could the name of that 12th apostle on the foundation be.... Mathias.... instead of Judas? Mathias was named an apostle to replace Judas: Acts 1:24-26
IMHO..God knew what was going to happen..just as he (Jesus) told the disciples that one would deny him three time before the rooster crowed...sure he had a choice..both did..but God can look into the future..and knows mens hearts..he ALREADY knew what would happen.
as far as whether he went to heaven or hell? IDK..thats up to God..who am I to point our someones fate...Im just as guilty as Judas was..I betray Jesus all the time..dont want to..just dont deny the flesh.
I think it's safe to assume that Judas repented of his actions before hanging (or whatever happened) He certainly didn't live to a ripe old age.
So, if we are to believe that once saved, always saved, he certainly would be accepted into heaven. And the disciples were saved, weren't they? Maybe he was never truly convinced of Jesus and his role as the Savior.
Posters to this forum have often tried to explain the salvation of the dying, even those in a coma. I don't think we can make an exception for Judas.
that is, if there really is a heaven/hell
Quote:
UOTE=P[Qadgett2;1538959]I think it's safe to assume that Judas repented of his actions before hanging (or whatever happened) He certainly didn't live to a ripe old age.
The catch here is that you can't repent for a sin after it has been commited and you're dead.
Tis a sad but true story
From the bible it came
And it tells us how Judas
Sold the savior in shame
He planned with the council
Of high priest that day
30 pieces of silver
Was the price they would pay
30 pieces of silver
30 shackles of shame
Was the price paid for Jesus
On the cross he was slain
Betrayed and forsaken
Unloved and unclaimed
In anger they pierced him
But he died not in vein
Twas on there on the hillside
The multitude came
And found our dear savoir
Then took him away
They bruised and mocked him
Thorns was crowned around his head
And his garment of purple
Showed the blood stains of red
Far off in the mountains with his face towards the sun
Judas begged merci for what he had done
He gave back the silver
For his heart filled with strife
Then there in the mountain he took his own life
30 pieces of silver
30 shackles of shame
Was the price paid for Jesus
On the cross he was slain
Location: Newton, NJ (but my heart is in Tennessee)
311 posts, read 1,376,787 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by pladecalvo
Did Judas hang himself or did he die when he "fell over and his entrails spilled out?" Whoops! Another contradiction.
Actually, I think there is a rational explanation for both to be true. Judas hung himself in a field as described. No Jew was going to make himself unclean by removing the body. His body started decomposing. Eventually the rope broke or was cut and his body could have fallen on some rocks which resulted in his "entrails spilling out". We don't have all the facts because we were not there, but I can't call this a contradiction because I think you can harmonize the two verses. One mistake that is often made in studying the Bible is taking 2 verses and assuming there is a contradiction even though we don't have all the facts. They are not mutually exclusive. It is not outside the bounds of reason that both verses could be giving you a snapshot of this death.
My thoughts about people in general who kill themselves is that they become so overpowered by evil spirits...
The Lord knows our hearts. Our hearts can speak when there are no words I find!
The only unforgiveable sin is blapheming the Holy Spirit.
We do not know for sure if someone is in heaven or not unless the Lord chooses to reveal this to us in one way or another.
I believe though that the Lord would have grace and mercy on Judas. That is just my thoughts.
God bless!
Jean
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Grace and Mercy.
