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Old 04-15-2010, 06:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
...and this is where you stumble.
No, I'm walking perfectly. You don't need hermeneutics to know if the world has experienced a world-wide earthquake since 97 A.D. or even since 0 A.D. in which the cities of the nations fall and the great city is divided into three parts. It ain't never happened.



Quote:
No he didn't.
Sayeth the blind man
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
No, I'm walking perfectly. You don't need hermeneutics to know if the world has experienced a world-wide earthquake since 97 A.D. or even since 0 A.D. in which the cities of the nations fall and the great city is divided into three parts. It ain't never happened.

Sayeth the blind man
I've been reading up on this and I found that the Chilean earthquake actually was worldwide. According to scientists, the earth's pole was shifted so that it wobbles a little differently.

"In a surprising new development, scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory have revealed that the 8.8. magnitude earthquake that recently hit Chile had managed to change the length of the day, and also shifted the way the Earth moves.....The earthquake that rocked Chile on Saturday was the fifth strongest ever recorded, according to the USGS." Chilean Earthquake's Tremors were Felt by the Whole World | TopNews United States

"The massive earthquake that struck the west coast of Chile last month moved the whole city of Concepcion at least 10 feet (3 meters) to the west, scientists say. It also shifted other parts of South America that are far removed from the center of the disturbance." Quake moved whole city by 3 meters: scientists

So whether you want to believe it or not, these things happen all the time. Some are worse than others but they all affect the whole earth.

My ex-husband was so afraid of this global earthquake that he made the whole family sleep fully clothed just in case... I wonder if he is still doing that 10 years later?
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I've been reading up on this and I found that the Chilean earthquake actually was worldwide. According to scientists, the earth's pole was shifted so that it wobbles a little differently.

"In a surprising new development, scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory have revealed that the 8.8. magnitude earthquake that recently hit Chile had managed to change the length of the day, and also shifted the way the Earth moves.....The earthquake that rocked Chile on Saturday was the fifth strongest ever recorded, according to the USGS." Chilean Earthquake's Tremors were Felt by the Whole World | TopNews United States

"The massive earthquake that struck the west coast of Chile last month moved the whole city of Concepcion at least 10 feet (3 meters) to the west, scientists say. It also shifted other parts of South America that are far removed from the center of the disturbance." Quake moved whole city by 3 meters: scientists

So whether you want to believe it or not, these things happen all the time. Some are worse than others but they all affect the whole earth.

My ex-husband was so afraid of this global earthquake that he made the whole family sleep fully clothed just in case... I wonder if he is still doing that 10 years later?
Kat, it is not that there have not been big earthquakes in the past but in the passage in Revelation this earthquake is so great all over the earth that the intensity of it has never occured before:

Revelation 16:18-19 CLV (18) And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred. And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great." (19) And the great city came to be divided into three parts; and the cities of the nations fall. And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation."
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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The celestial events of Revelation and the Olivette Discourse have NOTHING to do with a world wide earthquake. Eusebius, you have been watching too many movies by Cloud Nine Productions.

And now did the Idumeans make an acclamation to what Simon had said; but Jesus went away sorrowful, as seeing that the Idumeans were against all moderate counsels, and that the city was besieged on both sides. Nor indeed were the minds of the Idumeans at rest; for they were in a rage at the injury that had been offered them by their exclusion out of the city; and when they thought the zealots had been strong, but saw nothing of theirs to support them, they were in doubt about the matter, and many of them repented that they had come thither. But the shame that would attend them in case they returned without doing any thing at all, so far overcame that their repentance, that they lay all night before the wall, though in a very bad encampment; for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming....
Book IV, Chapter IV, Section 5 Josephus Wars of The Jews

1. Revelation 16:18, And there were noises and THUNDERINGS and LIGHTNINGS; and there was a great EARTHQUAKE, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.

2. Revelation 11:13, Matthew 24:7

"Taking advantage of the panic caused by the earthquake, the Idumeans, who were in league with the Zealots, who occupied the temple, succeeded in effecting an entrance into the city, when a fearful massacre ensued. 'The outer court of the temple,' says Josephus, 'was inundated with blood, and the day dawned upon eight thousand five hundred dead.' (Book 4, Ch. 5)." (Russell, The Parousia, p. 444)

Seneca (A.D.65) "How often have cities in Asia, how often in Achaia, been laid low by a single shock of earthquake! How many towns in Smyrna, how many in Macedonia, have been swallowed up! How often has Paphos collapsed! Not infrequently are tidings brought to us of the utter destruction of entire cities." (Seneca Ad Lucilium Epistulae Morales, trans. Richard M. Gummere, vol. 2, 437)

Secondly Eusebius,

The dating of Revelation, according to the Irenaeus interpretation, is far more than questionable. What are you going to do when the Christian councils all over the world decides it was written prior to 70 AD, as over half of them do already? The doctoral work by Kenneth L. Gentry on dating Revelation has concluded that it was written in the “mid to late 60s”...I suggest you read up and get on the bus...because you will have to eventually....Instead of giving in to the sensational imagination of this self serving culture, which I was a part of briefly.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Doesn't matter. There is no time event in the Old Testament times in which there was a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations fell.

From the time of the new testament there was never a world-wide earthquake in which the cities of the nations fall and in which Babylon is divided into three parts by the earthquake.

It is yet future.

This is why Christ has yet to come because He arrives after the world-wide earthquake in which the cities of the nations fall.
Hi Eusebius,

It matters if you realize Revelation was written in Greek and that earth "GE" did not necessarily mean the whole Earth. The word earthquake ,for example, is a quake of the earth. We have earth moving equipment and yet you make a rather bold assumption about Revelation that is not at all justified.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:08 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,453,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi Eusebius,

It matters if you realize Revelation was written in Greek and that earth "GE" did not necessarily mean the whole Earth. The word earthquake ,for example, is a quake of the earth. We have earth moving equipment and yet you make a rather bold assumption about Revelation that is not at all justified.
These are all the verses in Revelation where "earth" is used. I think it is very clear that Revelation 16:18 is talking about the whole earth and "cities of the nation" in 16:19 is about all the nations of the earth in that future day. It has not happened yet and therefore Christ has not come back yet to set up the millennium.

(Revelation 1:5 CLV) and from Jesus Christ, the Faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Suzerain of the kings of the earth. To Him Who is loving us and looses us from our sins by His blood"

(Revelation 3:10 CLV) Seeing that you keep the word of My endurance, I, also, will be keeping you out of the hour of trial which is about to be coming on the whole inhabited earth to try those dwelling on the earth."

(Revelation 5:3 CLV) And no one in heaven, nor yet on earth, nor yet underneath the earth, was able to open the scroll, neither to look at it."

(Revelation 5:6 CLV) And I perceived, in the center of the throne and of the four animals, and in the center of the elders, a Lambkin standing, as though slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes which are the seven spirits of God, commissioned for the entire earth."

(Revelation 5:10 CLV) Thou dost also make them a kingdom and a priesthood for our God, And they shall be reigning on the earth."

(Revelation 5:13 CLV) And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all in them, I hear also saying, "To Him Who is sitting on the throne-To the Lambkin-Be blessing and honor and glory and might For the eons of the eons!"

(Revelation 6:4 CLV) And forth came another horse, fiery-red, and to him who is sitting on it was given to take peace out of the earth, and that they should be slaying one another. And a huge sword was given to him."

(Revelation 6:8 CLV) And I perceived, and lo! a greenish horse, and the name of him who is sitting upon it is Death, and the Unseen followed him. And jurisdiction was given them over the fourth of the earth, to kill with the blade and with famine and with death and by the wild beasts of the earth."

(Revelation 6:10 CLV) And they cry with a loud voice, saying, "Till when, O Owner, holy and true, art Thou not judging and avenging our blood on those dwelling on the earth?

(Revelation 6:13 CLV) and the stars of heaven fall on the earth as a fig tree is casting its shriveled figs, quaking under a great wind."

(Revelation 6:15 CLV) And the kings of the earth, and the magnates, and the captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every slave and freeman, hide themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains."

(Revelation 7:1 CLV) And after this I perceived four messengers standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind may not be blowing on the land, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

(Revelation 8:5 CLV) And the messenger has taken the thurible, and he crams it with the fire of the altar and casts it into the earth. And thunders and voices and lightnings and an earthquake occurred."

(Revelation 8:7 CLV) And the first trumpets. And there came to be hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was cast into the earth, and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up."

(Revelation 8:13 CLV) And I perceived, and I hear one vulture flying in mid-heaven, saying with a loud voice, "Woe! woe! woe! to those dwelling on the earth as a result of the rest of the soundings of the trumpets of the three messengers who are about to be trumpeting!"

(Revelation 9:1 CLV) And the fifth messenger trumpets. And I perceived a star fallen out of heaven into the earth. And to him was given the key of the well of the submerged chaos.

(Revelation 9:3 CLV) And out of the fumes came out locusts into the earth, and license was granted them as the scorpions of the earth have license."

(Revelation 9:4 CLV) And it was declared to them that they should not be injuring the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, except those of mankind who have not the seal of God on their foreheads."

(Revelation 10:6 CLV) and swears by Him Who is living for the eons of the eons, Who creates heaven and that which is in it, and the earth and that which is in it, and the sea and that which is in it, that there will be no longer a time of delay,

(Revelation 11:4 CLV) These are the two olive trees, and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth."

(Revelation 11:10 CLV) And those dwelling on the earth are rejoicing over them and are making merry, and will be sending approach presents to one another, seeing that these two prophets torment those dwelling on the earth."

(Revelation 11:18 CLV) And the nations are angered, and Thy indignation came, and the era for the dead to be judged, and to give their wages to Thy slaves, the prophets, and to the saints and to those fearing Thy name, the small and the great, and to blight those who are blighting the earth."

(Revelation 12:4 CLV) And its tail is dragging a third of the stars of heaven, and casts them into the earth. And the dragon stands before the woman who is about to be bringing forth, that it may be devouring her child whenever she may be bringing forth"

(Revelation 12:9 CLV) And the great dragon was cast out, the ancient serpent called Adversary and Satan, who is deceiving the whole inhabited earth. It was cast into the earth, and its messengers were cast with it."

(Revelation 12:13 CLV) And when the dragon perceived that it was cast into the earth, it persecutes the woman who brought forth the male."

(Revelation 12:16 CLV) And the earth helps the woman, and the earth opens its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon casts out of its mouth."

(Revelation 13:3 CLV) And I perceived one of its heads as if it had been slain to death, and its death blow was cured, and the whole earth marvels after the wild beast."

(Revelation 13:8 CLV) And all who are dwelling on the earth will be worshiping it, everyone whose name is not written in the scroll of life of the Lambkin slain from the disruption of the world."

(Revelation 13:12 CLV) And it is exercising all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight, and making the earth and those dwelling in it to be worshiping the first wild beast, whose death blow was cured."

(Revelation 13:13 CLV) And it is doing great signs, that it may be making fire, also, descend out of heaven into the earth in the sight of mankind."

(Revelation 13:14 CLV) And it is deceiving those dwelling on the earth because of the signs which were given it to do in the sight of the wild beast, saying to those dwelling on the earth to make an image to the wild beast which has the blow of the sword and lives."

(Revelation 14:3 CLV) And they are singing a new song before the throne and before the four animals and before the elders. And no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth."

(Revelation 14:6 CLV) And I perceived another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having an eonian evangel to bring to those situated on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and language and people,

(Revelation 14:15 CLV) And another messenger came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him Who is sitting on the cloud, "Send in Thy sickle and reap! for the hour came to reap, for the harvest of the earth is dried."

(Revelation 14:16 CLV) And He Who is sitting on the cloud casts His sickle on the earth, and the earth is reaped."

(Revelation 14:18 CLV) And another messenger came out of the altar, having jurisdiction over the fire. And he shouts with a loud voice to him who has the sharp sickle, saying, "Send in your sharp sickle, and pick the clusters of the earth's grapevine, for its grapes are dead ripe."

(Revelation 14:19 CLV) And the messenger casts his sickle into the earth, and picks the grapevine of the earth, and he casts them into the great trough of the fury of God."

(Revelation 16:14 CLV) three unclean spirits, as if frogs (for they are spirits of demons, doing signs), which are going out to the kings of the whole inhabited earth, to be mobilizing them for the battle of the great day of God Almighty."

(Revelation 16:18 CLV) And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred. And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great."

(Revelation 17:2 CLV) with whom the kings of the earth commit prostitution, and those dwelling on the earth are made drunk with the wine of her prostitution."

(Revelation 17:4 CLV) And the woman was clothed with purple and scarlet, and gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, brimming with abominations and the uncleannesses of the prostitution of her and the earth."

(Revelation 17:5 CLV) And on her forehead is written a name: Secret Babylon the Great the mother of the prostitutes and the abominations of the earth.

(Revelation 17:8 CLV) The wild beast which you perceived was, and is not, and is about to be ascending out of the submerged chaos, and to be going away into destruction. And marvel shall those dwelling on the earth, whose names are not written on the scroll of life from the disruption of the world, when they observe the wild beast, seeing that it was, and is not, and will be present."

(Revelation 17:18 CLV) And the woman whom you perceived is the great city which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth."

(Revelation 18:1 CLV) After these things I perceived another messenger descending out of heaven, having great authority. And the earth is illuminated by his glory."

(Revelation 18:3 CLV) for, as a result of the wine of the fury of her prostitution have all the nations fallen. And the kings of the earth commit prostitution with her ,and the merchants of the earth are rich as a result of her power to indulge."

(Revelation 18:9 CLV) And the kings of the earth, who commit prostitution and indulge with her, will be lamenting and grieving over her whenever they may be observing the smoke of her conflagration,

(Revelation 18:11 CLV) And the merchants of the earth are lamenting and mourning over her, for no one is buying their cargo any longer:"

(Revelation 18:23 CLV) and the light of a lamp may be appearing in you nevermore; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride should be heard in you nevermore; for your merchants were the magnates of the earth, for by your enchantment all nations were deceived."

(Revelation 18:24 CLV) And in it the blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all of those slain upon the earth."

(Revelation 19:2 CLV) for true and just is His judging, for He judges the great prostitute who corrupts the earth with her prostitution, and avenges the blood of His slaves at her hand."

(Revelation 19:19 CLV) And I perceived the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, gathered to do battle with Him Who is sitting on the horse and with His army."

(Revelation 20:8 CLV) And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to be mobilizing them for battle, their number being as the sand of the sea."

(Revelation 20:9 CLV) And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and surround the citadel of the saints and the beloved city. And fire descended from God out of heaven and devoured them."

(Revelation 20:11 CLV) And I perceived a great white throne, and Him Who is sitting upon it, from Whose face earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them."

(Revelation 21:1 CLV) And I perceived a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth pass away, and the sea is no more."

(Revelation 21:24 CLV) And the nations shall be walking by means of its light, and the kings of the earth are carrying their glory into it."
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:20 AM
 
17,752 posts, read 15,059,926 times
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
These are all the verses in Revelation where "earth" is used. I think it is very clear that Revelation 16:18 is talking about the whole earth and "cities of the nation" in 16:19 is about all the nations of the earth in that future day. It has not happened yet and therefore Christ has not come back yet to set up the millennium.

(Revelation 1:5 CLV) and from Jesus Christ, the Faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Suzerain of the kings of the earth. To Him Who is loving us and looses us from our sins by His blood"

(Revelation 3:10 CLV) Seeing that you keep the word of My endurance, I, also, will be keeping you out of the hour of trial which is about to be coming on the whole inhabited earth to try those dwelling on the earth."

(Revelation 5:3 CLV) And no one in heaven, nor yet on earth, nor yet underneath the earth, was able to open the scroll, neither to look at it."

(Revelation 5:6 CLV) And I perceived, in the center of the throne and of the four animals, and in the center of the elders, a Lambkin standing, as though slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes which are the seven spirits of God, commissioned for the entire earth."

(Revelation 5:10 CLV) Thou dost also make them a kingdom and a priesthood for our God, And they shall be reigning on the earth."

(Revelation 5:13 CLV) And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all in them, I hear also saying, "To Him Who is sitting on the throne-To the Lambkin-Be blessing and honor and glory and might For the eons of the eons!"

(Revelation 6:4 CLV) And forth came another horse, fiery-red, and to him who is sitting on it was given to take peace out of the earth, and that they should be slaying one another. And a huge sword was given to him."

(Revelation 6:8 CLV) And I perceived, and lo! a greenish horse, and the name of him who is sitting upon it is Death, and the Unseen followed him. And jurisdiction was given them over the fourth of the earth, to kill with the blade and with famine and with death and by the wild beasts of the earth."

(Revelation 6:10 CLV) And they cry with a loud voice, saying, "Till when, O Owner, holy and true, art Thou not judging and avenging our blood on those dwelling on the earth?

(Revelation 6:13 CLV) and the stars of heaven fall on the earth as a fig tree is casting its shriveled figs, quaking under a great wind."

(Revelation 6:15 CLV) And the kings of the earth, and the magnates, and the captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every slave and freeman, hide themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains."

(Revelation 7:1 CLV) And after this I perceived four messengers standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind may not be blowing on the land, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

(Revelation 8:5 CLV) And the messenger has taken the thurible, and he crams it with the fire of the altar and casts it into the earth. And thunders and voices and lightnings and an earthquake occurred."

(Revelation 8:7 CLV) And the first trumpets. And there came to be hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was cast into the earth, and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up."

(Revelation 8:13 CLV) And I perceived, and I hear one vulture flying in mid-heaven, saying with a loud voice, "Woe! woe! woe! to those dwelling on the earth as a result of the rest of the soundings of the trumpets of the three messengers who are about to be trumpeting!"

(Revelation 9:1 CLV) And the fifth messenger trumpets. And I perceived a star fallen out of heaven into the earth. And to him was given the key of the well of the submerged chaos.

(Revelation 9:3 CLV) And out of the fumes came out locusts into the earth, and license was granted them as the scorpions of the earth have license."

(Revelation 9:4 CLV) And it was declared to them that they should not be injuring the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, except those of mankind who have not the seal of God on their foreheads."

(Revelation 10:6 CLV) and swears by Him Who is living for the eons of the eons, Who creates heaven and that which is in it, and the earth and that which is in it, and the sea and that which is in it, that there will be no longer a time of delay,

(Revelation 11:4 CLV) These are the two olive trees, and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth."

(Revelation 11:10 CLV) And those dwelling on the earth are rejoicing over them and are making merry, and will be sending approach presents to one another, seeing that these two prophets torment those dwelling on the earth."

(Revelation 11:18 CLV) And the nations are angered, and Thy indignation came, and the era for the dead to be judged, and to give their wages to Thy slaves, the prophets, and to the saints and to those fearing Thy name, the small and the great, and to blight those who are blighting the earth."

(Revelation 12:4 CLV) And its tail is dragging a third of the stars of heaven, and casts them into the earth. And the dragon stands before the woman who is about to be bringing forth, that it may be devouring her child whenever she may be bringing forth"

(Revelation 12:9 CLV) And the great dragon was cast out, the ancient serpent called Adversary and Satan, who is deceiving the whole inhabited earth. It was cast into the earth, and its messengers were cast with it."

(Revelation 12:13 CLV) And when the dragon perceived that it was cast into the earth, it persecutes the woman who brought forth the male."

(Revelation 12:16 CLV) And the earth helps the woman, and the earth opens its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon casts out of its mouth."

(Revelation 13:3 CLV) And I perceived one of its heads as if it had been slain to death, and its death blow was cured, and the whole earth marvels after the wild beast."

(Revelation 13:8 CLV) And all who are dwelling on the earth will be worshiping it, everyone whose name is not written in the scroll of life of the Lambkin slain from the disruption of the world."

(Revelation 13:12 CLV) And it is exercising all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight, and making the earth and those dwelling in it to be worshiping the first wild beast, whose death blow was cured."

(Revelation 13:13 CLV) And it is doing great signs, that it may be making fire, also, descend out of heaven into the earth in the sight of mankind."

(Revelation 13:14 CLV) And it is deceiving those dwelling on the earth because of the signs which were given it to do in the sight of the wild beast, saying to those dwelling on the earth to make an image to the wild beast which has the blow of the sword and lives."

(Revelation 14:3 CLV) And they are singing a new song before the throne and before the four animals and before the elders. And no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth."

(Revelation 14:6 CLV) And I perceived another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having an eonian evangel to bring to those situated on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and language and people,

(Revelation 14:15 CLV) And another messenger came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him Who is sitting on the cloud, "Send in Thy sickle and reap! for the hour came to reap, for the harvest of the earth is dried."

(Revelation 14:16 CLV) And He Who is sitting on the cloud casts His sickle on the earth, and the earth is reaped."

(Revelation 14:18 CLV) And another messenger came out of the altar, having jurisdiction over the fire. And he shouts with a loud voice to him who has the sharp sickle, saying, "Send in your sharp sickle, and pick the clusters of the earth's grapevine, for its grapes are dead ripe."

(Revelation 14:19 CLV) And the messenger casts his sickle into the earth, and picks the grapevine of the earth, and he casts them into the great trough of the fury of God."

(Revelation 16:14 CLV) three unclean spirits, as if frogs (for they are spirits of demons, doing signs), which are going out to the kings of the whole inhabited earth, to be mobilizing them for the battle of the great day of God Almighty."

(Revelation 16:18 CLV) And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred. And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great."

(Revelation 17:2 CLV) with whom the kings of the earth commit prostitution, and those dwelling on the earth are made drunk with the wine of her prostitution."

(Revelation 17:4 CLV) And the woman was clothed with purple and scarlet, and gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, brimming with abominations and the uncleannesses of the prostitution of her and the earth."

(Revelation 17:5 CLV) And on her forehead is written a name: Secret Babylon the Great the mother of the prostitutes and the abominations of the earth.

(Revelation 17:8 CLV) The wild beast which you perceived was, and is not, and is about to be ascending out of the submerged chaos, and to be going away into destruction. And marvel shall those dwelling on the earth, whose names are not written on the scroll of life from the disruption of the world, when they observe the wild beast, seeing that it was, and is not, and will be present."

(Revelation 17:18 CLV) And the woman whom you perceived is the great city which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth."

(Revelation 18:1 CLV) After these things I perceived another messenger descending out of heaven, having great authority. And the earth is illuminated by his glory."

(Revelation 18:3 CLV) for, as a result of the wine of the fury of her prostitution have all the nations fallen. And the kings of the earth commit prostitution with her ,and the merchants of the earth are rich as a result of her power to indulge."

(Revelation 18:9 CLV) And the kings of the earth, who commit prostitution and indulge with her, will be lamenting and grieving over her whenever they may be observing the smoke of her conflagration,

(Revelation 18:11 CLV) And the merchants of the earth are lamenting and mourning over her, for no one is buying their cargo any longer:"

(Revelation 18:23 CLV) and the light of a lamp may be appearing in you nevermore; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride should be heard in you nevermore; for your merchants were the magnates of the earth, for by your enchantment all nations were deceived."

(Revelation 18:24 CLV) And in it the blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all of those slain upon the earth."

(Revelation 19:2 CLV) for true and just is His judging, for He judges the great prostitute who corrupts the earth with her prostitution, and avenges the blood of His slaves at her hand."

(Revelation 19:19 CLV) And I perceived the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, gathered to do battle with Him Who is sitting on the horse and with His army."

(Revelation 20:8 CLV) And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to be mobilizing them for battle, their number being as the sand of the sea."

(Revelation 20:9 CLV) And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and surround the citadel of the saints and the beloved city. And fire descended from God out of heaven and devoured them."

(Revelation 20:11 CLV) And I perceived a great white throne, and Him Who is sitting upon it, from Whose face earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them."

(Revelation 21:1 CLV) And I perceived a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth pass away, and the sea is no more."

(Revelation 21:24 CLV) And the nations shall be walking by means of its light, and the kings of the earth are carrying their glory into it."
Hi Eusebius,

You have still missed the point. The "earth" is defined by the context of the passage. You imply that earth in one passage is the same as in another. Jesus stepped onto the earth with he came of the boat in Luke for example. Its the exact same word "ge". Thus earth is always defined by the passage. In some cases when using terms like kingdoms or "ethnos", it may be appropriate.

We also know by inference that the authors were not so slavishly literal. Was the Gospel in South America?

Romans 1

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.


Using a fixed definition of the word "ge" as an interpretive metric is only going to lead to confusion.
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Kat, it is not that there have not been big earthquakes in the past but in the passage in Revelation this earthquake is so great all over the earth that the intensity of it has never occured before:

Revelation 16:18-19 CLV (18) And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred. And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great." (19) And the great city came to be divided into three parts; and the cities of the nations fall. And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation."
This was written in 1st century... I think you are waiting for something that will never happen. The first clue is that use of prophetic language along with reference to Babylon which did not exist in the 1st century nor now. The second is that Babylon is not rebuilt in Rev. so it cannot be a future one but rather is a symbol of another city like Babylon was.... The Jewish nation in the 1st century was divided into three parts....

And to the author of this book.. that WAS his world....

But assuming you are correct in your assumption that there will be an earthquake throughout the world then how can the rest of Revelation play out? Rev. 18 has people mourning over the fallen Babylon... how is it they are not mourning the loss of all the nations? And if Babylon is split into three how then is it fallen?

None of this seems to make sense when simply reading Rev. so I must conclude that something within your theory is amiss. Perhaps you can explain to me how this ties together in your mind.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:00 AM
 
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Hi Eusebius,

You have still missed the point. The "earth" is defined by the context of the passage. You imply that earth in one passage is the same as in another. Jesus stepped onto the earth with he came of the boat in Luke for example. Its the exact same word "ge". Thus earth is always defined by the passage. In some cases when using terms like kingdoms or "ethnos", it may be appropriate.

We also know by inference that the authors were not so slavishly literal. Was the Gospel in South America?

Romans 1
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.


Using a fixed definition of the word "ge" as an interpretive metric is only going to lead to confusion.

Not quite there yet. First of all "the cities of the nations fall" does not mean it is just a teeny isolated bit of earth such as Christ puts His feet on when He gets out of a boat. The term "nations" to me means world-wide such as in Revelation when the kings of the nations will carry their glory into the new city Jerusalem. It won't just be a couple of kings. It will be kings world-wide.
Likewise the cities of the nations will fall due to this world-wide earthquake.
Another reason it is world-wide is that every time a new eon or age comes there is first a world-wide catastrophe. After this earthquake affecting the whole world the millennial eon or age comes.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:47 PM
 
17,752 posts, read 15,059,926 times
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Not quite there yet. First of all "the cities of the nations fall" does not mean it is just a teeny isolated bit of earth such as Christ puts His feet on when He gets out of a boat. The term "nations" to me means world-wide such as in Revelation when the kings of the nations will carry their glory into the new city Jerusalem. It won't just be a couple of kings. It will be kings world-wide.
Likewise the cities of the nations will fall due to this world-wide earthquake.
Another reason it is world-wide is that every time a new eon or age comes there is first a world-wide catastrophe. After this earthquake affecting the whole world the millennial eon or age comes.

Hi Eusebius,

Can you explain what Paul meant in Romans?
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