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Old 04-12-2010, 06:22 PM
 
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I have come across this site - which puts the millenium after 70AD (which I have thought before and agree with)

J.S. Russell's Position on the Millennium, the Neglected Third Way of Preterism (The Antichrist and the Second Coming) (http://www.theantichristandthesecondcoming.com/j-s-russell-s-position-on-the-millennium-the-neglected-third-way-of-preterism - broken link)

The dragon, serpent, devil is bound for the 1000 years after the judgment of the w h o r e which happened to Jerulsalem in 70AD.

I have heard that full preterism puts the 1000 years from 30AD to 70AD but to me it seems that the timing does not fit.

Any comments on this.
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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That's from Duncan's book and site, a friend of mine in Christ . He posits the 11th Horn, beast from the Earth and Sea, and Son of Perdition as Titus and Vespasian. Great Guy...decent book, but not consistent IMO with the scriptures.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
That's from Duncan's book and site, a friend of mine in Christ . He posits the 11th Horn, beast from the Earth and Sea, and Son of Perdition as Titus and Vespasian. Great Guy...decent book, but not consistent IMO with the scriptures.
What do you say about the discrepancy between the timing of the millenium --- the serpent, devil, is bound for the 1000 years after the destruction of babylon which is 70AD --- --- the millenium reign of christ also starts after 70AD
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Christ was clear about Satan being bound - Matt 12 & Mark 3
The imagery in Revelation is all over the place in terms of chronology. Duncan posits, just like Russell, that the 1000 years proceed after the destruction of Babylon, but they both fail in realizing that Rev 20 is the "first resurrection", and this resurrection began immediately at Christ's - Matt 27
I was once Prewrath - which views the seals, trumpets and bowls in paralleled chronology, which is correct, from different viewpoints, first the elements and order of the Babylon system, second the vantage point from the saints endurance, and thirdly from the wicked judgements. This sequence is correct IMO, but once Revelation 20 begins, it reverts back to Christ 1st advent ministry and resurrection and terminates with the same vantage point as the close of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls. It is very important to understand that the ministry of Christ was the event(s) in which Satan was bound from accusing or having any effect whatsoever on the gospel message.

I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. - Christ said this as "past tense"

Death was not banished until the death of Christ, as 2 Tim. 1:10, Heb. 1:14, 1 Pet. 1:14, Phil 1:21, and Rom 2:7 confirm this. The aboilishment of Death is not a future event. Remember Christ brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 2 Tim. 1:10. Eph. 4:8-10, shows that saints were taken to heaven when Christ ascended to the Father. See also Heb. 2:14,15. They were delivered by Christ who in Heb. 2:14, destroyed the power of Satan. Only after the power of Satan was destroyed could these saints be delivered up to the Father. See also 1 Cor. 15:24.

So, Duncan, although a Partial Preterist, can't seem to get past the glaring truths he has been presented with on other forums by myself and many others about his hermeneutic. He seems to forcefit this idea that the milenium begins after the fall of Jerusalem, when it is clear, the timing and contexts won't allow it. Not only does he error in this regard, but errors greatly in the idenification of the beast, the false prophet and the "son of perdition", and so on, which IMO, sends the rest of the interpretation, sideways. Great guy though, we banter alot together, but in good study.

He's pretty stubborn, unlike any of us
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
I have come across this site - which puts the millenium after 70AD (which I have thought before and agree with)

J.S. Russell's Position on the Millennium, the Neglected Third Way of Preterism (The Antichrist and the Second Coming) (http://www.theantichristandthesecondcoming.com/j-s-russell-s-position-on-the-millennium-the-neglected-third-way-of-preterism - broken link)

The dragon, serpent, devil is bound for the 1000 years after the judgment of the w h o r e which happened to Jerulsalem in 70AD.

I have heard that full preterism puts the 1000 years from 30AD to 70AD but to me it seems that the timing does not fit.

Any comments on this.
I personally think that the 1000 years was when Christ was on earth and those years in which the disciples spread the gospel. I think this because in Acts it is written that the Sanhedrin was amazed that although their leader was killed, instead of scattering, they worked even harder to spread the good news. This period of transition was figuratively "1000" years. I think this because I have been in the waiting room of the doctor for at least a million years on occasion... so I can see how that 1000 number is not always used literally in the bible.

The dragon, serpent, and devil are bound by Christ.. didn't he say that himself? While he was on earth and after he arose, he was the one putting those 3 in chains. But after a time the devil is loosed (chapter 20) and immediately there are people surrounding the city which really did happen. The measure was full and the destruction of those people (who were told over and over they would not see life if they didn't believe) in Jerusalem was the fulfillment. That event meant there was never another animal sacrifice to God. It was a maturing of the faith... So now the message IS to love one another and if we all do that there would be no murder, lying, crying... etc.

Well that is my two cents anyway... or four cents....

Oh and this is just from reading the bible and not in studying the doctrine of preterism.. I have no formal training as sciota does (well as formal as he has anyway). I also see that the Jewish revolt of 135 (I believe) is not insignificant so perhaps there was a 100 year period from 35-135... so I'm not dogmatic about any of it well... except that it is all past.

There's two more cents....
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:23 AM
 
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Prior to the 1000 years coming the entire earth must be wrecked by a world wide catastrophic earthquake such as has never occurred before and never will again.

Rev 16:18-20 And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred.
And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind
came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great."
(19) And the great city came to be divided into three parts; and the cities
of the nations fall. And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the
sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation."
(20) And every island fled, and the mountains were not found."

Babylon has never been divided into any parts from any earthquake. The cities of the nations have not fallen ever from an earthquake.

After all the cities of the nations have been wrecked by the great earthquake then will Christ come
back and take over the reigns of the world.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Prior to the 1000 years coming the entire earth must be wrecked by a world wide catastrophic earthquake such as has never occurred before and never will again.

Rev 16:18-20 And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred.
And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind
came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great."
(19) And the great city came to be divided into three parts; and the cities
of the nations fall. And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the
sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation."
(20) And every island fled, and the mountains were not found."

Babylon has never been divided into any parts from any earthquake. The cities of the nations have not fallen ever from an earthquake.

After all the cities of the nations have been wrecked by the great earthquake then will Christ come
back and take over the reigns of the world.
Isn't "Babylon the Great" a code name for something else?
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Isn't "Babylon the Great" a code name for something else?
Doesn't matter as it relates to this specific prophecy.

Not all the cities of the nations have fallen due to a world-wide earthquake.

Therefore, since Christ sets up the 1000 year kingdom AFTER that, He has not done so yet.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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And this is where you stumble my friend:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Doesn't matter as it relates to this specific prophecy.
It does matter, profoundly. John drew almost ALL of the symbolic imagery and apocalyptic EVENTS for the entire book from the Old Testament.
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
And this is where you stumble my friend:



It does matter, profoundly. John drew almost ALL of the symbolic imagery and apocalyptic EVENTS for the entire book from the Old Testament.
Hey.. I was gonna say that!

and I will add that it does matter because if Babylon doesn't mean Babylon then maybe earthquake doesn't mean earthquake...and mountains splitting doesn't mean mountains splitting.

That whole region is riddled with fault lines.. near where Babylon was, is the worst area.

The point is that Babylon doesn't exist today nor did it exist in the first century so it is clearly standing for something else. So if that is the case why take all the surrounding things literally?
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