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Old 04-14-2010, 02:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
um....ok....

John 15


9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
How does that apply to anyone here?

 
Old 04-14-2010, 02:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
How does that apply to anyone here?
How does any of the New Testament apply to us, shibata? Are you not a disciple?

Here's what precedes:
1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will[b] ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

The conversation would go much smoother if you just come out with your point instead of asking vague questions. Jesus is speaking to the disciples here in chapter 15, but it applies to all who are disciples, eg born again Christians.

Look what Jesus prays in John 17

Jesus Prays for His Disciples


6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,[b] that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world,[c] I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;[d] and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers



20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[e] believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”
 
Old 04-14-2010, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
'Many antichrists have come.' 1 Jn 2:18 NIV

That seems as appropriate as Jn 17.
shibata, are you a Christian? what are you implying?

you didn't address any of the rest of that post. my take is you are not interested in healthy, edifying discussion and at every chance you seek to sow discourse. every post of yours has been of godless chatter. enough already. these conversations should be for edification of the saints and a call to repentance to the unsaved. please quit trying to cause division.
 
Old 04-14-2010, 03:52 PM
 
5,409 posts, read 4,660,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Do you know why Christ died on the cross?
Jesus shed His blood on the Cross to wash away our sins of the past and to deliver us from sin. He came to destroy the works of the devil, which is sin. Jesus did not shed His precious blood to simply cover up our sinning, but to break its hold on us and to cleanse us from all sin. We are all born slaves to the devil, and sin has a hold on us, but Jesus came to break the chains of darkness. Therefore, whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; it is written. This is the only assurance one has that he/she is saved; there is keeping power in the blood of the Lamb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
If so, please explain what you think changed between the old covenant and the new covenant. It doesn't sound like you understand at all.
The old covenant was for the nation of Israel. The new covenant is for the Church of Christ, Jews and gentiles alike. Jesus taught walking in the Spirit, not in the flesh; and, if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, which is sin.

Galatians 5
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law

Philippians 2:12 - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
 
Old 04-14-2010, 06:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Mike,

Great post and I agree with most of what you say. You presented all 3 phases of sanctification well. My objection would be that there is no such thing as a continuously fruitless Christian. Jesus is clear that he chose us to bear fruit, fruit that will last. He is also the author and perfecter of our faith, and God has prepared our works before the foundation of time.
It is true that the believer is expected to produce fruit. It is also true that many true believers do not produce much if any fruit. I actually prefer the term spiritual production, but maybe that's just me.

At the moment a person believes in Christ for salvation, that is, at the moment he understands the issue involved in salvation from having heard and understood the Gospel message which the Holy Spirit made understandable to him, he then places his faith in Christ to provide that salvation because he desires to have a relationship with God through faith in Christ, at that moment he is eternally saved before he has any opportunity to persevere in the faith or do anything else. Salvation is immediate upon faith in Christ and it is eternally secure apart from any 'perseverance of the saints.'

To believe in Christ for salvation means to place your trust entirely in Christ for that salvation. To believe in Christ does not mean that you must persevere to the end. Once you are saved through one initial decision to place your faith in Christ for salvation you are saved forever.

Actually, Hebrews 12:2 doesn't say that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, but of the faith. It is a reference to the Gospel. I did a post on that the other day. Here is the link. Refer to posts #80 and 81.

Dumbing Down God


Quote:
There are many who go to the alter, say a prayer, think they are saved, use it as a ticket to heaven, and go on living their lives as if nothing ever happened. When the Holy Spirit seals a person, they are regenerated and become a new creation. They are no longer slaves to sin but are now slaves to righteousness. Romans 8 is a great study on this.
Once a person in this dispensation of the church believes in Christ for salvation he becomes a new creation. He becomes 'church'. A part of the body of Christ. He still possesses his old sin nature however, and though he is no longer a slave to it, he can choose to give into its temptations.

The moment a person is saved, he is both indwelt and filled with the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is permanent. The filling of the Spirit however, is a separate ministry of God the Holy Spirit and can be lost. At the moment a believer commits his first sin after salvation, he loses the filling of the Spirit and goes back under the control of his old sin nature. He quenches and grieves the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 5:19; Eph.4:30 ). The believer is commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18). But if that believer has never learned the principle of 1 John 1:9 with regard to simply naming that sin to God the Father, then he remains out of fellowship and is incapable of producing any divine good. It is entirely possible for a believer to go his entire life in a state of carnality because he never learned the principle of 'Rebound'

Doctrine of Rebound (http://jrcyouth.com/love1.htm - broken link)


Quote:
We cannot assume that all of those in Corinth were saved. In fact, the immoral "brother" was expelled because he was living as an unbeliever and they were told to treat him like one so that his soul might be saved. Paul's second letter to the Corinthians reveals the brother repented and they were instructed to reaffirm their love for him as he indeed expressed godly sorrow that led to repentance.
There were members of the Corinth church who were not saved. But Paul was addressing believers. The Bible never refers to unbelievers as 'breathen'. Only believers are referred to as brothers. Paul told them in 1 Cor. 3:3 that they were walking Like mere men (unbelievers).

In verse 1 he referred to them as babes in Christ. No unbeliever is in Christ.

The man mentioned in 1 Cor. 5:5 was not a believer but only one who professed to be a Christian. Paul calls him a 'so-called brother.' He was ex-communicated from the church and as a result he repented as mentioned in 2 Corinthians 2:1-11.



BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: GALATIANS CHAPTER FIVE 5: TRUE BELIEVERS DO COMMIT SINS

What does the Bible say about church discipline / excommunication?

Quote:
A red flag must go up if one examines themselves in light of Scripture and sees there is no fruit and their lives are contradictory to the mirror of God's Word. None of us can look into the heart of any professed believer, only God knows who His sheep are. But we are to admonish those who have strayed in truth and in love in prayerful hope they will come to repentance by the calling of the Holy Spirit.

You are right that some stay babes, but some of those seemingly babes are not babes at all - they are "false converts" if that term may be used. They were "Christian" as a title and nothing else. They are representative of one who is a liar, walking in darkness, with the truth not in him as 1 John clearly portrays.
That is correct. Actually, most even though they are true believers do stay babes because it takes too much effort to advance to spiritual maturity. Most believers reject the fact that you must study and learn Bible doctrine and metabolze it so that it constructs an edifcation complex in the soul.

And it is true as you say that those who merely profess to be believers are only 'false converts' and not babes at all.


Quote:
For what it's worth, I'm the saints will persevere. The call is to make sure one is a saint by getting in the Word and examining yourself to be sure your faith is true. It's the call of every professed believer.

Please take a moment to at least watch the 3rd message (post #13) in this thread.
That you believe in the perseverance of the saints, I assumed as much.

A believer certainly should persist in growing spiritually to the point of maturity and maintaining that status, as it can be lost as in the case of king Solomon, although eternal salvation cannot be lost.

I didn't look at the video because it's 40 minutes in length and with my computer and dial up connection it would take hours to download it. I did however find a sermon on the internet by Paul Washer and found out quickly that he believes in the perseverence of the saints.

But as I said, salvation occurs at the moment of faith in Christ before any perseverance comes into play. And the Bible is crystal clear that once you are saved you are saved forever.

If a person truly is saved, he is saved even if he later has doubts about it. But as it says in 1 John 5:13 the believer can have confidence that he is saved.

But God knows a person is saved at the moment that person understands the issue regarding what Christ did on the Cross with regard to providing salvation, and in understanding the issue desires to receive the offer of salvation through faith in Christ. At the moment that person places his complete trust in Christ for salvation he is saved forever.

Another person can only see the believers faith through his works and through the fruit he produces, but God sees the persons faith in that person's heart and knows that he has believed.

It really is as simple as 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.' Acts 16:31. As it says in Acts 16:33,34 the jailer and his entire household were saved that very hour, having believed in God (Jesus Christ). Not after having persevered to the end of their lives.

I have included here a link with regard to Paul Washer and his teaching of Lordship salvation which is simply not Biblically sound.

Paul Washer's FALSE GOSPEL!

I hope you will take all this to heart.

Last edited by Mike555; 04-14-2010 at 07:21 PM..
 
Old 04-14-2010, 07:08 PM
 
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Paul Washer continues in the book of 1 John in Part 4 of this 5-part series on assurance of salvation. The true test of salvation does not come from praying, participating in a religious organization, or observing rites; the evidence of salvation is the working of God in our lives that causes it to grow in conformity to His character and in conformity to His will.
1 John 2 7 Brethren,[a] I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.[b] 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
Possibly the greatest sign that we are a true believer is that we love the brethren. Are we willing to risk our lives for a brother or sister? Are we willing to lay down our lives? Jesus says in John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
Love is not just something - it's everything. It is more than not doing the negative, but what positive actions of love are we demonstrating to people of Christ? If we are truly converted, we will love the people of God because we are one! Born again believers are marked by love. If you have not love, then you are in spiritual darkness. Our great goal is to be like Jesus, to love people in the truth with all of our hearts.

1 John 3:14-15 says,
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother[c] abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
A murderer? One who hates his brother is a cold-blooded murderer. It's a habitual practice of hate. A serial killer, killing over and over and over again. We are are commanded to love our brothers and sisters. It is impossible to have a vertical relationship with God with no horizontal relationships with the Body. If the extent of our Christianity is going to church and hearing a sermon and worshiping, we're not loving. We must love the brethren in practical ways. 1 John 3:17-18 tells us
17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
So, how's your love life?


YouTube - Biblical Assurance (Part 4) - Paul Washer
 
Old 04-14-2010, 07:48 PM
 
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Mike, thank you brother for your lengthy and well-thought post. I can see your heart is true to the faith and it's a pleasure having this discussion with you in truth and love. Again, we agree on just about everything. Just a couple of comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Salvation is immediate upon faith in Christ and it is eternally secure apart from any 'perseverance of the saints.'
Perseverance of the saints IS eternal security. Some say preservation of the saints, but it's the same nonetheless. I think this explains it well: Perseverance of the Saints - is it Biblical?

Quote:
Actually, Hebrews 12:2 doesn't say that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, but of the faith. It is a reference to the Gospel. I did a post on that the other day. Here is the link. Refer to posts #80 and 81.

www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/946071-dumbing-down-god.html
I had to go check this to be sure, and all of the translations I found indeed say "our", with some putting an emphasis on "our". I will have to look into this further.

Quote:
Once a person in this dispensation of the church believes in Christ for salvation he becomes a new creation. He becomes 'church'. A part of the body of Christ. He still possesses his old sin nature however, and though he is no longer a slave to it, he can choose to give into its temptations.
Being a slave means to be controlled by something, in this case sin or righteousness (of Christ). It is the whole. The habitual practice. We either habitually walk in sin, or we habitually walk in Christ. There are times where a believer slips into sin, but the whole of their life will be marked by walking as children of light, not of darkness.

Quote:
But if that believer has never learned the principle of 1 John 1:9 with regard to simply naming that sin to God the Father, then he remains out of fellowship and is incapable of producing any divine good. It is entirely possible for a believer to go his entire life in a state of carnality because he never learned the principle of 'Rebound'

Doctrine of Rebound (http://jrcyouth.com/love1.htm - broken link)
Interesting - never heard of this terminology before. I don't believe Scripture supports that we are ever out of fellowship with Him once we are sealed. The fellowship may certainly be strained, but it is never broken. I'm sure you did not mean this positionally, but at face value, how it is presented gives this perception.

Quote:
There were members of the Corinth church who were not saved. But Paul was addressing believers. The Bible never refers to unbelievers as 'breathen'. Only believers are referred to as brothers. Paul told them in 1 Cor. 3:3 that they were walking Like mere men (unbelievers).

In verse 1 he referred to them as babes in Christ. No unbeliever is in Christ.

The man mentioned in 1 Cor. 5:5 was not a believer but only one who professed to be a Christian. Paul calls him a 'so-called brother.' He was ex-communicated from the church and as a result he repented as mentioned in 2 Corinthians 2:1-11.
Yes, Paul assumed he was talking to the brethren, including the one "so-called". Paul did not assume he was unsaved, but because of his behavior, he instructed them to treat him like an unbeliever for the sake of his soul. You are assuming he was not a believer, and we do not have that information as the Bible does not give it to us. It is not up to us to make that judgment on anyone's heart, be it to say they are saved or not. Only God knows with finality if one is a sheep.

Quote:
And it is true as you say that those who merely profess to be believers are only 'false converts' and not babes at all.
2nd and 3rd soils, tares.

Quote:
But as I said, salvation occurs at the moment of faith in Christ before any perseverance comes into play. And the Bible is crystal clear that once you are saved you are saved forever.
Absolutely.

Quote:
I have included here a link with regard to Paul Washer and his teaching of Lordship salvation which is simply not Biblically sound.

Paul Washer's FALSE GOSPEL!

I hope you will take all this to heart.
I had a feeling this link was going to David Stewart's site. Stewart is a nut. Perhaps you've never visited his site before, but check it out and see how sensational he is. I'm a moderator at another message board and we don't even allow his site to be posted. You can search "David Steward Jesus-is-savior" and see all kinds of controversy. But an honest observation of his own website should tell you what kind of spirit is in control of his website.

No man is perfect, including Paul Washer. The messages presented here are sound. From Stewart's site, he says

Quote:
Mr. Washer brainwashes a group of 5,000 youths to believe that they cannot be saved unless they stop living in sin.
The message he is referring to is titled "Examine Yourselves". If you are able to download mp3's, I can send you a link so you can listen for yourself. Washer does not say to stop living in sin so you can be saved. We aren't saved because we stop sinning, we are saved by the blood of Christ by the grace of God through faith in Him alone. But the life marked by continuous, habitual practice of a sinful lifestyle is evidence that one is not saved. A red flag should be raised indeed. David Stewart misrepresents Paul Washer's position like he does many other teachers. Perhaps you will find a way to listen to Paul Washer for yourself. He is a VERY humble man who has given his life to the ministry of the Gospel. I wish you could listen.

Anyway, anything I left out was because I agreed with you. We are on the same page than not, I believe, and it gives me joy to call you my brother in Christ. Have a good night, Mike.

Last edited by airō; 04-14-2010 at 08:56 PM..
 
Old 04-15-2010, 01:37 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Mike, thank you brother for your lengthy and well-thought post. I can see your heart is true to the faith and it's a pleasure having this discussion with you in truth and love. Again, we agree on just about everything. Just a couple of comments.
You're welcome.


Quote:
Perseverance of the saints IS eternal security. Some say preservation of the saints, but it's the same nonetheless. I think this explains it well: Perseverance of the Saints - is it Biblical?

I had to go check this to be sure, and all of the translations I found indeed say "our", with some putting an emphasis on "our". I will have to look into this further.
Most translations get is wrong, but I did list some translations that correctly translate it as 'the faith'. A good Greek/English Interlinear New Testament will show it.


Quote:
Being a slave means to be controlled by something, in this case sin or righteousness (of Christ). It is the whole. The habitual practice. We either habitually walk in sin, or we habitually walk in Christ. There are times where a believer slips into sin, but the whole of their life will be marked by walking as children of light, not of darkness.

Interesting - never heard of this terminology before. I don't believe Scripture supports that we are ever out of fellowship with Him once we are sealed. The fellowship may certainly be strained, but it is never broken. I'm sure you did not mean this positionally, but at face value, how it is presented gives this perception.
My first pastor/teacher, Robert B. Thieme Jr. of Berachah Church in Houston TX. coined the term 'rebound' to explain the sin recovery principle and procedure.

Being out of fellowship doesn't mean a loss of salvation, only that you are in status quo carnality. By having committed a sin you have quenched the Holy Spirit and are not under the control of the Holy Spirit. You are instead, under the control of your old sin nature until you acknowledge the sin to God, at which point you are back under the control of the Holy Spirit and in status quo spirituality.

Spiritual growth and spirituality are different things.

Spiritual growth is relative and spans everything from spiritual infancy, which experientually is how you begin your life as a believer, to spiritual maturity which really has no limit.

Spirituality and carnality are absolutes, and at any given time, a believer is either spiritual or carnal. And at any level of spiritual growth a believer is either spiritual or carnal. It is simply a matter of having committed a sin, you are carnal, and having named that sin you are spiritual. You are either controlled by the Holy Spirit (spiritual) or you are controlled by your sin nature (carnal).

Quote:
Yes, Paul assumed he was talking to the brethren, including the one "so-called". Paul did not assume he was unsaved, but because of his behavior, he instructed them to treat him like an unbeliever for the sake of his soul. You are assuming he was not a believer, and we do not have that information as the Bible does not give it to us. It is not up to us to make that judgment on anyone's heart, be it to say they are saved or not. Only God knows with finality if one is a sheep.

2nd and 3rd soils, tares.
If by 'saving his spirit' Paul had eternal salvation in mind than the man had to be an unbeliever because a believer is never in any danger of losing his salvation. If Paul had some other meaning in mind then the man might very well have been a believer which just goes to show that believers are capable of commiting any sin an unbeliever can commit.



Quote:
I had a feeling this link was going to David Stewart's site. Stewart is a nut. Perhaps you've never visited his site before, but check it out and see how sensational he is. I'm a moderator at another message board and we don't even allow his site to be posted. You can search "David Steward Jesus-is-savior" and see all kinds of controversy. But an honest observation of his own website should tell you what kind of spirit is in control of his website.

No man is perfect, including Paul Washer. The messages presented here are sound. From Stewart's site, he says

The message he is referring to is titled "Examine Yourselves". If you are able to download mp3's, I can send you a link so you can listen for yourself. Washer does not say to stop living in sin so you can be saved. We aren't saved because we stop sinning, we are saved by the blood of Christ by the grace of God through faith in Him alone. But the life marked by continuous, habitual practice of a sinful lifestyle is evidence that one is not saved. A red flag should be raised indeed. David Stewart misrepresents Paul Washer's position like he does many other teachers. Perhaps you will find a way to listen to Paul Washer for yourself. He is a VERY humble man who has given his life to the ministry of the Gospel. I wish you could listen.
I don't really know anything about David Stewart. I almost didn't use that link because in some other link or area of his website he branded as a heretic my first pastor/teacher, Robert B. Thieme Jr. for something he didn't even say. I can't recall what it was though at the moment. Still, I agree with what he said here in this link and I like the fact that he quoted Harry A. Ironside.


Quote:
Anyway, anything I left out was because I agreed with you. We are on the same page than not, I believe, and it gives me joy to call you my brother in Christ. Have a good night, Mike.
Good night airo. (I have absolutely no idea how to put the bar over the 'o.' Sorry about that.)
 
Old 04-15-2010, 06:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If by 'saving his spirit' Paul had eternal salvation in mind than the man had to be an unbeliever because a believer is never in any danger of losing his salvation. If Paul had some other meaning in mind then the man might very well have been a believer which just goes to show that believers are capable of commiting any sin an unbeliever can commit.
The thing is, Paul was not equipped to determine whether the so-called brother was a believer or not, just as we cannot make that determination on anyone. By so-called, the man at least professed to be a believer. But by his behavior, he was acting like he was an unbeliever. So Paul said to treat him like an unbeliever so he might be saved. He wasn't talking about the man losing his salvation, but rather, being an apostate.

If the man came to repentance as a believer, then he was indeed living carnally and his responding to the Holy Spirit in godly sorrow would have brought him to repentance (as did occur) and restored fellowship. But if the man refused to repent and remained carnal, he may very well have been an apostate. In the end, only God knows who is an apostate and who is a believer acting carnally (continuous, habitual).

Since the man came to repentance, he was never an apostate. Had he been apostate, he would have not repented. Once a true apostate, always an apostate (an apostate was never saved to begin with).
 
Old 04-23-2010, 09:57 AM
 
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Biblical Assurance of Salvation Part 5

This is the final message in this 5-part series on Biblical Assurance of Salvation by Paul Washer. He begins in 1 John 5:13 where John clearly states,
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[d] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
The purpose of the book of 1 John is to provide us a means to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. We should study the message of 1 John to see whether its truths are realized in our daily lives. Are we conforming to Christ? Are we sensitive to sin? Are we keeping His commandments through a habitual life of obedience? Are we walking as Christ walked? Are we loving our brothers? Are we loving our enemies - those opposed to us? Are these things spiritual realities in our lives?

One of the great tests in 1 John is found in chapter 2 where we see,
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Do we love God, or do we love the world? Many American Christians seem to think it is ok to have a love for the world. But that's not what it says! God clearly says in verse 15 that if anyone loves the world the love of the Father is not in Him. So, do you love the world? And what is the world? It is everything that does not acknowledge Jesus as Lord, it's every thought that does not measure up to the Word of God, it's everything that contradicts what God says about Himself and His will.

A Christian will come to disdain everything God hates, and love what God loves. And what does God hate? Sin! He hates sin! We as born again believers will learn to have a great disgust for our sin. We will hate sin with a passion and flee from it. And when it overtakes us, as it can, we will come to repentance out of godly sorrow. But many professed Christians actually love their sin. They justify it, they even deny they are sinful, or at least claim the one sin in their life is not sin at all, but just "who they are". Maybe it's sex outside of wedlock, maybe it's a lifestyle of partying, or perhaps it's a lifestyle marked by hatred, idolatry, pride, theft, lying, self-worship, or lust. God calls them a liar not having the truth in them in 1 John 1:8-10. They love the very things for which Christ was crucified! They profess the name of Jesus, but they are indeed lost!

We are called to be separate from the world. And Scripture promises that those who are not separate now will become separate later at the throne of judgment. So what about you? Is there any discernible difference between you and those in the world? Would a jury have evidence to convict you of loving God, or would they find evidence that you obviously love the world and the things of the world?

Are you a new creature who desires the things of God? Are your desires realized and evidenced in your walk? Are you pursuing holiness? Or are you pursuing the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life? Are you seeking temporary happiness through superficial pleasures or permanent joy through the work of Christ? Do you have a desire to be pure, or is your desire to be fulfilled by your own selfish wants and lusts?

This is also how we know we are children of God - do we practice righteousness? 1 John 2:28-29,
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when[f] He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
Or is your life marked by sinfulness? 1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
If your life is marked by sin, you are not of God. If your life is marked by love of the world, you are of the devil. Whoever is born again leaves the lifestyle of sin. There is no such thing as a continuously habitual, carnal, fruitless Christian. If this is you, you are a Christian in name only and you deceive yourself. If you justify your sin knowing full well what God's Word says about your sin, then you deceive yourself and do not practice the truth. Let God change that today. Let Him change you. The call here is for repentance. Come to Him with nothing in your hands. Repent from loving the world, repent from following after this deadly master who has control over your life, and turn to the One who offers you Life so that you can be freed from your captivity and enter into eternal life.

Jesus came 2,000 years ago, and He is coming again just as He said He would. The clock on the wall is just seconds from striking Midnight. Will you continue down this path of destruction, fooling yourself that you are saved, when all accounts of your life seemingly prove otherwise? Repent and believe in the Son of God, and be changed. For you will be changed, IF the Spirit of God is within you.

May God bless the ones who have read and listened to these messages. May the Holy Spirit prick you to examine yourself to make sure you are His child. And whether you find yourself in a temporary state of carnality, or whether you have never known God to begin with (or rather He has never known you), come to repentance today and surrender your will, your desires, and your entire life to the Lord Jesus Christ.

YouTube - Biblical Assurance (Part 5) - Paul Washer
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