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Old 04-23-2010, 09:59 AM
 
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it wouldn't embed for some reason, here's another try:


YouTube - Biblical Assurance (Part 5) - Paul Washer

oh well, it's not embedding, just go to the link to watch.

 
Old 04-23-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Part 1

We all need Biblical assurance of our salvation. Suppose you have doubts because of the lifestyle you are living. We cannot trust ourselves to whether we are saved, we must go to the Word of God to determine God's will and His sure-fire test of how we can know we are saved. It's what God's Word says about our life, not what we say about it or what others say for us.

Examine yourself:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
Amen. Paul Washer has a way of making it clear. Glad to see you and Mike discuss this without someone trying to turn this in to another UR thread.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-23-2010 at 11:03 AM..
 
Old 04-23-2010, 11:40 AM
 
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Would God give someone the gifts of healing and casting out of devils if that person was not saved? Of course not. Judas received these gifts:

Luke.9
[1] Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
[2] And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Afterward, however, Judas gave over to the devil and fell from grace.

Acts.1
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Last edited by scgraham; 04-23-2010 at 11:54 AM..
 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:00 PM
 
162 posts, read 176,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Amen. Paul Washer has a way of making it clear. Glad to see you and Mike discuss this without someone trying to turn this in to another UR thread.
Thank you, brother. I've seen "UR" mentioned before, what does that mean? At any rate, yes, it's a blessing when we can discuss these things in truth and love.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:02 PM
 
162 posts, read 176,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Would God give someone the gifts of healing and casting out of devils if that person was not saved? Of course not.
John 6 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

1 John 2 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
John 6 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

1 John 2 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
So, you feel that God gave Judas His gifts even though he was not saved?

Heb.6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
So, you feel that God gave Judas His gifts even though he was not saved?

Heb.6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Judas was always the son of perdition. The only other person to be called by this term is the antichrist. Judas was never saved.

Question: "Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved?"

Answer:
The Bible clearly indicates that Judas was not saved. Jesus Himself said of Judas, “The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24). Here is a clear picture of the sovereignty of God and the will of man working together. God had, from ages past, determined that Christ would be betrayed by Judas, die on the cross for our sins, and be resurrected. This is what Jesus meant when He said He would “go just as it is written about him.” Nothing would stop the plan of God to provide salvation for mankind.

However, the fact that it was all foreordained does not excuse Judas or absolve him from the punishment he would suffer for his part in the drama. Judas made his own choices, and they were the source of his own damnation. Yet the choices fit perfectly into the sovereign plan of God. God controls not only the good, but also the evil of man to accomplish His own ends. Here we see Jesus condemning Judas, but when you consider that Judas travelled with Jesus for nearly three years, we know He also gave Judas ample opportunity for salvation and repentance. Even after his dreadful deed, Judas could have fallen on his knees to beg God’s forgiveness for his betrayal. But he did not. He may have felt some remorse born of fear which caused him to return the money to the Pharisees, but he never repented, preferring instead to commit suicide, the ultimate act of selfishness (Matthew 27:5-8).

John 17:12 says concerning Judas, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” At one time, though, Judas believed that Jesus was a prophet, or possibly even believed He was the Messiah. Jesus sent the disciples out to proclaim the Gospel and perform miracles (Luke 9:1-6). Judas was included in this group. Judas had faith, but it was not a true saving faith. Judas was never “saved” but for a time he was a follower of Christ.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:18 PM
 
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p.s. Hebrews 6 and 10 are not about losing salvation. They are in reference to apostates, who were never saved to begin with.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Judas was never saved.
This is where we part ways. God would never give His gifts to a sinner. Judas was indeed saved at one time, but then he fell. Notice in Acts 1:25

[25] ..., from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

You have to be in grace in order to fall from grace. If Judas was never in grace, then he could not have fallen by transgression.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:34 PM
 
162 posts, read 176,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
This is where we part ways. God would never give His gifts to a sinner. Judas was indeed saved at one time, but then he fell. Notice in Acts 1:25

[25] ..., from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

You have to be in grace in order to fall from grace. If Judas was never in grace, then he could not have fallen by transgression.
You added words. Judas didn't fall from grace, he fell from ministry: "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship".

We also have Matthew 7:

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Jesus never knew Judas.
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