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Old 04-24-2010, 07:12 AM
 
5,420 posts, read 4,665,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
You contradict yourself by using that Scripture. You have previously said that one can fall away yet repent and come back. This creates a schizophrenic relationship where one is constantly in and out of salvation. The passage above says you can never return as there is no more sacrifice for sins.
Not at all. If we willfully sin, then the blood of Jesus no longer protects us. We are a child of the devil again. If we remain in that condition, we will go to hell. If, however, the Father draws us back to repentance, wherewith we forsake all sin, then the backslider can be restored again.

Any way, I have given plenty of passages to point out that "once saved, always saved" is heresy; it's a work of the flesh. The only way I believe it is if once we are saved, we remain saved through obedience. But, this teaching that we are stilled saved even if we go on to commit willful sin is heresy -- even if it's just one willful sin.

 
Old 04-24-2010, 07:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
If, however, the Father draws us back to repentance, wherewith we forsake all sin, then the backslider can be restored again.
The Father won't draw you back, for it says, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Again, you are contradicting yourself and basing your belief on your own contrived theology. You have no biblical support and the ones you provide contradict your position.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 07:36 AM
 
5,420 posts, read 4,665,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
The Father won't draw you back, for it says, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
It is written.

Jer. 3
[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.

The heart of the Lord is mercy, and He wants the backsliders to come home to obedience. It is written.

Quote:
Again, you are contradicting yourself and basing your belief on your own contrived theology. You have no biblical support and the ones you provide contradict your position.
2 Tim.2
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
[16] But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 08:02 AM
 
162 posts, read 177,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
It is written.

Jer. 3
[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.

The heart of the Lord is mercy, and He wants the backsliders to come home to obedience. It is written.
Your eisegesis is terrible. That passage in Jeremiah is for Israel, not the church. Furthermore, the passage in Hebrews was speaking to believing Jews who were formally under the old covenant where the sacrifice of sin was through animal sacrifices for atonement. These sacrifices were no longer acceptable to God, and now under the new covenant there is only ONE sacrifice for sins, and that was Jesus Christ. Now therefore, the warning was to these Jews who had the knowledge of the truth that if they fell away to return to their old practices of sin in expectation they could offer up another sacrifice, They would be deceived, as God says there is no more sacrifice for sins. This has nothing to do with the salvation of a born again believer.

More than that, the passage in Jeremiah completely contradicts that of Hebrews 10:26, so the only explaination is that they are not talking about the same thing since Scripture is infallible. Here are the two passages together:

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Jeremiah 3:12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.


You cannot reconcile these differences for they are not talking about the same thing.

Quote:

2 Tim.2
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
[16] But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Yes, I encourage you to do a study of Hebrews so you can understand these passages in their proper context. You need to understand the audience as well.

Please read this: Does Hebrews 10:26 mean that a believer can lose salvation?

Excerpt:

Quote:
Answer: “For if we are willfully sinning after receiving the full knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice concerning sins.” Hebrews 10:26-29 warns against the sin of apostasy. Apostasy is an intentional falling away or defection. Apostates are those who move toward Christ, right up to the edge of saving belief, who hear and understand the Gospel, and are on the verge of saving faith, but then reject what they have learned and turn away. These are people who are perhaps even aware of their sin and even make a profession of faith. But rather than going on to spiritual maturity, their interest in Christ begins to diminish, the things of the world have more attraction to them rather than less, and eventually they lose all desire for the things of God and they turn away. The Lord illustrated these types of people in the second and third soils of Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23. These are those who “receive with joy” the things of the Lord, but who are drawn away by the cares of the world or turned off by difficulties they encounter because of Christ.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:05 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Any way, I have given plenty of passages to point out that "once saved, always saved" is heresy; it's a work of the flesh. The only way I believe it is if once we are saved, we remain saved through obedience. But, this teaching that we are stilled saved even if we go on to commit willful sin is heresy -- even if it's just one willful sin.
That's the same thing the ET-once-saved-always-saved crowd says about the Christian Univeralists!

Christians, we have a problem. There is no agreement on what is necessary to be saved. It's amazing anyone comes to Christ with all the different theories floating around. The fact is, Jesus is the savior of the world and it's not a matter of people making a wise choice or their good works.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:13 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,408,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That's the same thing the ET-once-saved-always-saved crowd says about the Christian Univeralists!

Christians, we have a problem. There is no agreement on what is necessary to be saved. It's amazing anyone comes to Christ with all the different theories floating around. The fact is, Jesus is the savior of the world and it's not a matter of people making a wise choice or their good works.
Exactly... the only assurance we have is that God will work it out, because we humans have made a big mess of it... 1000s of denominations, all with their specific rules about who gets in and who doesn't...
 
Old 04-24-2010, 02:29 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,418,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Exactly... the only assurance we have is that God will work it out, because we humans have made a big mess of it... 1000s of denominations, all with their specific rules about who gets in and who doesn't...
Isaiah 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgression, he was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes WE ARE HEALED.

ALL WE like sheep have gone astray; we have turned EVERY ONE to his own way; and THE LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL.

 
Old 04-24-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,819,724 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That's the same thing the ET-once-saved-always-saved crowd says about the Christian Univeralists!

Christians, we have a problem. There is no agreement on what is necessary to be saved. It's amazing anyone comes to Christ with all the different theories floating around. The fact is, Jesus is the savior of the world and it's not a matter of people making a wise choice or their good works.
"There is no agreement on what is necessary to be saved." only among the blind

"The fact is, Jesus is the savior of the world" factually true but the will of the Father qualifies this:

John 6:40
"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life"

"everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him" ........Not everyone will or does
 
Old 04-24-2010, 03:35 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
John 6:40
"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life"

"everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him" ........Not everyone will or does
Everyone will, eventually.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 10:58 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,100,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Part 1

We all need Biblical assurance of our salvation. Suppose you have doubts because of the lifestyle you are living. We cannot trust ourselves to whether we are saved, we must go to the Word of God to determine God's will and His sure-fire test of how we can know we are saved. It's what God's Word says about our life, not what we say about it or what others say for us.

Examine yourself:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.


YouTube - Biblical Assurance (Part 1) - Paul Washer
I started a thread, like many others, on this topic before. We are saved:

By God's love for us and our love for Him according to John 3:16, 14:21 and 15:9-10; 1 John 3:16 and 5:2-3; Jude 21 and Romans 5:8.

By faith according to Luke 7:50; Ephesians 2:8 and Hebrews 11:6.

By fear according to Jude 23.

By hope according to Romans 8:24 and Titus 1:2.

By repentance according to Psalm 34:18; Mark 1:14 and 15 and 2 Peter 3:9.

By grace according to Acts 15:11; Ephesians 2:5-8; 1 Corinthians 1:4 and Titus 3:7.

By Confessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus, and believing in our heart that God has raised him from the dead Romans 10:9.


By baptism according to Acts 2:38, and Mark 16:16.

By preaching according to 1 Timothy 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 1:18.

By The Holy Spirit according to Titus 3:5 and 1 Corinthians 12:13.

By the Name of Jesus according to Matthew 1:21; Acts 2:21, 4:12 and 16:31; Philippians 2:9-11 and Revelation 22:4.

By works AS A RESULT OF OUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST according to James 1:23-25 and 2:14-24; Titus 1:16 and 3:8 and Romans 2:13.

By Jesus' death, blood, and resurrection according to Romans 5:10; 1 Corinthians 15:20 and Ephesians 1:7.

By keeping the commandments according to Matthew 7:21-23 and 19:17; Luke 10:25-28; John 14:21 and 15: 9-10; 1 Corinthians 7:19; Hebrews 10:16-17; 2 Peter 2:21; 1 John 2:3-6 and 3:22-24, 2 John 5-6 and 9; and Jeremiah 31:33-34.

By endurance according to Matthew 24:13 and Revelation 14:12.
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