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Old 04-20-2010, 08:37 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
Reputation: 7408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
This is a lie. It is not based on the bible. It is not a Christian doctrine. Do not believe this lie. There is no such thing as "once saved always saved"!

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1-2)

and

"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:15-16)

If a person leaves Christ and enters into sin by what are they saved? The are the servants of sin and the servants of death. And hell and death shall be cast into the lake of fire. So shall all that are partakers of sin and death so end up.(See Rev. 20)
To the contrary!!!

The believer is eternally secure. The sin unto death refers to the believer being taken out of this life under maximum divine discipline and taken home to Heaven in disgrace. He has not lost his salvation.

When the believer continues to disobey God it is handled as a family matter as per Prov. 3:11-12; Heb. 12:5-13; Rev. 3:19-21.

Just as a person cannot earn his salvation, neither can he do anything to maintain his salvation or to lose it. Sin isn't even the issue in eternal salvation because Jesus Christ has already paid the penalty for any and every sin you can commit. And since He took sin out of the way, the only issue in salvation is will you as an unsaved member of the human race walk over the line where the barrier of sin used to be by simply placing your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Once you do that you are saved forever.

The sacrifice of Jesus was perfect and complete.

Hebrews 10:10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:12 But He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

The believer has a perfect standing before God based on the fact that God has imputed His perfect righteousness to the believer and has pronounced the believer to be justified. No matter how disobedient and unfaithful the believer becomes, God still sees His righteousness in that believer.

Contained in the following three websites is an abundance of information which pertains to the eternal security of the believer. I urge all who erroneously think that your salvation can be lost to seriously study this information.

Eternal Security (http://jrcyouth.com/love24.htm - broken link)

Eternal Security - Publications - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ

The Grace Gifts given at Salvation - Publications - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ

The belief that you can lose your salvation is based on a failure to understand the grace of God and a belief that you have the power to undo something that God has done. It is self righteous arrogance. And there is no place for it. The believers spiritual growth after salvation demands becomng oriented to the grace of God and staying away from legalism.

And with regard to Revelation 20:11-15, the unbeliever, he who has never believed in Christ for salvation, is condemned not because of his sins which have already been paid for by Christ, but rather, he is condemned on the basis of his works, his human righteousness.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: San Diego
497 posts, read 773,240 times
Reputation: 592
I cannot understand how Christians can honestly claim persecution here in the USA. Our senate is 98% judeo-christian and our congress is 97.7% judeo-christian. The population is somewhere around 80% judeo-christian.

You people are not being oppressed. In fact, you are bogarting more than your share of the governmental representation.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:04 AM
 
11,686 posts, read 13,083,410 times
Reputation: 30973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The issue is freedom of speech, which is rapidly disappearing in this country. This is not the only instance where people have been arrested for attempting to preach the Gospel. In time, Christians in this country are going to come under increasing oppression from the government. I don't what this particular person has said. I am talking about the principle.

Nor am I interested in debating it. I presented the article for people to see. There are those who understand the issue and those who never will.
As the article says he was requested to move away from the entrance is all:

"It has always been location, his standing in that location, that has been the issue," he said. "The only thing he was asked to do was move away from the entrance to the building."
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:05 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,060,710 times
Reputation: 1461
the guy is an attention whoooorah..

Appeals court upholds conviction of religious protestor - Beverly, MA - Salem Gazette

"Marcavage had been addressing the crowds in downtown Salem that Halloween night using a bullhorn. Police said he was also waving a Bible “within inches” of peoples’ faces, accosting event-goers and raising his voice even louder than the noise of the crowd. An officer in the area told his supervisor he’d received complaints about Marcavage’s behavior."

and

"Justice David Mills’ findings compared the case to a similar one in 1999 in that both defendants’ behavior amounted to “tumultuous conduct."
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:03 AM
 
696 posts, read 765,277 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary!!!

The believer is eternally secure. The sin unto death refers to the believer being taken out of this life under maximum divine discipline and taken home to Heaven in disgrace. He has not lost his salvation.

When the believer continues to disobey God it is handled as a family matter as per Prov. 3:11-12; Heb. 12:5-13; Rev. 3:19-21.

Just as a person cannot earn his salvation, neither can he do anything to maintain his salvation or to lose it. Sin isn't even the issue in eternal salvation because Jesus Christ has already paid the penalty for any and every sin you can commit. And since He took sin out of the way, the only issue in salvation is will you as an unsaved member of the human race walk over the line where the barrier of sin used to be by simply placing your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Once you do that you are saved forever.

The sacrifice of Jesus was perfect and complete.

Hebrews 10:10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:12 But He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

The believer has a perfect standing before God based on the fact that God has imputed His perfect righteousness to the believer and has pronounced the believer to be justified. No matter how disobedient and unfaithful the believer becomes, God still sees His righteousness in that believer.

Contained in the following three websites is an abundance of information which pertains to the eternal security of the believer. I urge all who erroneously think that your salvation can be lost to seriously study this information.

Eternal Security (http://jrcyouth.com/love24.htm - broken link)

Eternal Security - Publications - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ

The Grace Gifts given at Salvation - Publications - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ

The belief that you can lose your salvation is based on a failure to understand the grace of God and a belief that you have the power to undo something that God has done. It is self righteous arrogance. And there is no place for it. The believers spiritual growth after salvation demands becomng oriented to the grace of God and staying away from legalism.

And with regard to Revelation 20:11-15, the unbeliever, he who has never believed in Christ for salvation, is condemned not because of his sins which have already been paid for by Christ, but rather, he is condemned on the basis of his works, his human righteousness.
A furthur belief that salvation is lost stems from the fact that there are those who claim they were once Christian and then moved away. Scripture clearly states there were those who once walked among us for a time, but were not of us. They are false teachers and apostates written of in the end times.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

The Father can not lose that which He has claimed. One can not be a Christian and come away. It appears that way to human eyes, but it is only because we are human. The Father loses no one, not one single Christian. But those who would claim Christianity and The Son change his words and his meanings, who continue to deny his teachings and still attempt to claim Him. They claim they have come out, but the truth is they were never in. They have not lost salvation of The Father, they never had it to begin with. It is a difficult time for Christians and we are persecuted by those mostly who walked among us, but were not of us. They are of the world and the world follows them into their persecutions.

But praise The Father because He will not lose those He has sealed as Christians. Praise The Son for the price He paid in claiming His lost sheep. Praise the Spirit for the conviction each Christian feels in knowing the truth till the day the Restrainer is removed. Then not one will have anyone to blame, but themselves and their actions.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,566,813 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
As the article says he was requested to move away from the entrance is all:

"It has always been location, his standing in that location, that has been the issue," he said. "The only thing he was asked to do was move away from the entrance to the building."
He couldn't move - then there would be no arrest and he wouldn't get to preach to THOUSANDS via the internet clip. You know, he's just being "as wise as a serpent"

Obviously the officers were being controlled by satan - but then the plan to squelch the gospel backfired right back in their little demonic faces!!!
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 844,338 times
Reputation: 204
I went to the sites via the urls provided. It seems the preacher and the state of mind of those at the church he's with are a rather nasty piece of work. Their idea is even most Christians, besides everybody else, are going to be tortured in hell ceaselessly for ever. They propose the selective use of some of God's law, specifically government execution of homoselxuals, is a right thing. They do at least give a nod to Jesus dying for our sins so we don't have to. But, they seem to forget, when the government is killing people for something the guilty party is sure Jesus has forgiven, it hasn't stopped them from proceeding to execute the criminal. Still, they and other liars about the things of God and those who seriously misrepresent Him, as well as various sorts of enemies of good and God and other zany characters are generally protected under free speech laws, at least for now. May it long continue.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,566,813 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary!!!

The believer is eternally secure. The sin unto death refers to the believer being taken out of this life under maximum divine discipline and taken home to Heaven in disgrace. He has not lost his salvation.
This made me think about me chasing my dog home from the neighbor's house the other day (with a switch) tail tucked between her legs as I yelled "Get home you bad dog!!!"

Something like that?
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