U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-18-2010, 05:19 AM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,428,828 times
Reputation: 5148

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
it makes sense considering the knowledge they are gleening from the study of DNA...take temperment...Paul had some very sore temperment toward the christians...he killed them...but, it is obvious that he had the devine spark in him for he responded to the Lord on the road to Demascus...We are to witness the gospel to everyone, for we do not know which ones were chosen by God...His word will go out and will not come back void...it will accomplish what it is meant to accomplish...that is to convict (trigger the devine spark) or condemn (where the devine spark is lacking there will be no response or a negative response because that line of code is missing in that individual)...But we do not know which ones they are, so we are to preach to all with no regard...One who understands programming will understand where i am coming from...
Hmmmm....it takes 23 pairs of chromosomes to create life...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-18-2010, 05:44 AM
 
Location: US
26,443 posts, read 14,028,208 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
Hmmmm....it takes 23 pairs of chromosomes to create life...
That was an odd response...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 06:41 AM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,428,828 times
Reputation: 5148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
That was an odd response...
Not really...DNA gave birth to this simple thought...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,787 times
Reputation: 420
Acts 2:39 - Election is ongoing
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,413,898 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Acts 2:39 - Election is ongoing
Until when?

How can you be a full preterist and proclaim Election is still ongoing?

This is why I think Calvinism and Preterism can't mix. If things are done they are formed and applied. Yet you as a preterist are saying the covenant was formed but not applied ...to all... but is still being applied?

Please explain that to me, if you have time.

Here is what I see:

That passage in Acts talks about a promise:
30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.

and

38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

So the the calling is having the spirit and a king from the line of David.

Yet who are the subjects of the kingdom of the king from the line of David?

So Peter was preaching that the prophecy was fulfilled establishing a kingdom under the Messiah, Jesus.

Psalm 132:11 The LORD has sworn to David a truth from which He will not turn back: "Of the fruit of your body I will set upon your throne.

Physical Israel was limited to a few converts and a bloodline. Spiritual Israel is open to all. If God does the calling and he wants all men to be saved and all men are subjects of the kingdom (in or out of the city) then Christ is ruler over all. If only some are subjects of the kingdom then Christ is not ruler over all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: US
26,443 posts, read 14,028,208 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Acts 2:39 - Election is ongoing
Maybe in the mind of man but in the mind of God it is already done...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,787 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe in the mind of man but in the mind of God it is already done...

Exactly.

Kat,

You are wrong in your interpretation of Acts 2:39...as a matter of fact, you are way off. And you aren't a Preterist, because you believe that the wicked will be redeemed eschatologically. IMO, The exact number of elected into the faith is counted, for all time, and the exact number of the wicked, is counted, for all time. The only difference between Calvinism and Fulfilled Covenant Eschatology is the imputation of righteousness to the saints for all time, was consummated in the ROTD. Calvinists, as most Christians, look forward to the future for this resurrection. We got to sleep....in either Abraham's Bosom, or alongside the river of fire.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 04-18-2010 at 02:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,413,898 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Exactly.

Kat,

You are wrong in your interpretation of Acts 2:39...as a matter of fact, you are way off.
How am I way off. The context is Pentacost, the generation is that "wicked one" and yet you use it as the basis for saying election (which leads to salvation) is ongoing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Acts 2:39 - Election is ongoing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe in the mind of man but in the mind of God it is already done...
If in the mind of man it is unfinished then that does not affect the fact that to God it is already done. Thus men are deceived not God. Whomever God ELECTED was done long ago. How can there be ongoing election?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Here is what I see:

That passage in Acts talks about a promise:
30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.

and

38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

So then the calling is having the spirit and a king from the line of David.

Yet who are the subjects of the kingdom of the king from the line of David?

So Peter was preaching that the prophecy was fulfilled establishing a kingdom under the Messiah, Jesus.

Psalm 132:11 The LORD has sworn to David a truth from which He will not turn back: "Of the fruit of your body I will set upon your throne.

Physical Israel was limited to a few converts and a bloodline. Spiritual Israel is open to all. If God does the calling and he wants all men to be saved and all men are subjects of the kingdom (in or out of the city) then Christ is ruler over all. If only some are subjects of the kingdom then Christ is not ruler over all.
The passage has nothing to do with election or on going election...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 03:42 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,428,828 times
Reputation: 5148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe in the mind of man but in the mind of God it is already done...
Along this line of thoughts...Genesis 3:14 and Exodus 28:17-21 are passages to ponder upon...

15And I will put an enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy SEED and her SEED; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The word seed is synonymous with stone...i.e...cherry stone. Another definition of rock is "woman's family line" and Peter/Petra.

The breast plate

21 And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve according to their names, like the engraving of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.

Blessings...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-18-2010, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,787 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
How am I way off. The context is Pentacost, the generation is that "wicked one" and yet you use it as the basis for saying election (which leads to salvation) is ongoing:
Of course the context is Pentacost, and Peter is talking to the heirs of Promise...the Jews, who we, as Christians are the heirs of promise as well. Ths is what Fulfilled Covenant Eschatology (Full Preterism) is.
To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, is to be an Israelite.
This is the entire message here. Joel 2 is being fulfilled in this chapter.

Quote:
If in the mind of man it is unfinished then that does not affect the fact that to God it is already done. Thus men are deceived not God. Whomever God ELECTED was done long ago. How can there be ongoing election?
Earthly realities are spoken here.

Quote:
The passage has nothing to do with election or on going election...
Yes it does. Afar off, is not 40 years in the future to 70 AD when Israel, as a earthly nation, was grafted back into Israel with the Gentiles, so this promise and blessings, cannot be directed solely to the Ethnic Jews. This promise is referring to those "baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call".

The Blessing is perpetual for all time, all around the world, for the Israelite.

I will let Matthew Henry speak:

It was very express (Isa. 44:3): I will pour my Spirit upon thy seed. And (Isa. 59:21), My Spirit and my word shall not depart from thy seed, and thy seed’s seed. When God took Abraham into covenant, he said, I will be a God to thee, and to thy seed (Gen. 17:7); and, accordingly, every Israelite had his son circumcised at eight days old. Now it is proper for an Israelite, when he is by baptism to come into a new dispensation of this covenant, to ask, "What must be done with my children? Must they be thrown out, or taken in with me?’’ "Taken in’’ (says Peter) "by all means; for the promise, that great promise of God’s being to you a God, is as much to you and to your children now as ever it was.’’ "Though the promise is still extended to your children as it has been, yet it is not, as it has been, confined to you and them, but the benefit of it is designed for all that are afar off;’’ we may add, and their children, for the blessing of Abraham comes upon the Gentiles, through Jesus Christ, Gal. 3:14. The promise had long pertained to the Israelites (Rom. 9:4); but now it is sent to those that are afar off, the remotest nations of the Gentiles, and every one of them too, all that are afar off. To this general the following limitation must refer, even as many of them, as many particular persons in each nation, as the Lord our God shall call effectually into the fellowship of Jesus Christ. Note, God can make his call to reach those that are ever so far off, and none come but those whom he calls.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This must take place to be "elected" and "had been called" into the faith.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top