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Old 04-19-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,300,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you must be elected to have been called? So the calling and the election is past but the faith is future? HUH?

I really need to read up on my preterist/calvinist doctrine!
Most of the Preterist books I read, the writers/etc were all once Calvinists and still hold true to many of the doctrines, especially in regards to election. The Preterist Universalist is a small piece of the Preterist community, and are consistently challenged and refuted on many levels from what I have read thus far....IMO of course. My mother is Calvinist and I was raised Protestant, but she did not consider herself one till ten years or so ago. I came to Calvinism through my studies into Preterism, and found many of the Preterist leaders either are, or hold 75+% of the doctrines laid out in the Calvinist view. The only difference between a complete Calvinist is this, from what I understand, is the consummation of the Justification process for the church, past present and future. Paul believed that he had not been fully jusitifed yet. Therefore, the church, as a whole, feels the same way since we are not, or are going into the end times soon, and we will be soon. Ful Preterism believes that we are already justified with the Resurrection of the Dead/marriage of the church in 70 AD, and only this, as far as I understand, to be the only difference, however, that only difference, affects the entire structure and interpretation of several intricacies to the view in and of itself, and of the scriptures, as a whole. Full Preterism is One Kingdom, One Covenant, Right Now, for His people Israel. Which includes everyone who believes.

About your first question, I am having a hard time understanding your thought process......election is an action performed by God, faith is what a human has....I don't see the relationship....in regards to election. Faith and election work together, and they can't realy be compared as an apple to an apple. One is elected because he has faith. One has faith because he is elected. You can't get "un-elected." Once you believe with all of your heart, I believe you will never turn.

There was a time when I came to the faith. I was always elected, but it did not materialize in me until I was 13. I thought I turned from Christ later on, but looking back now, I know I never did. That is a specific work, in me personally, that happens in many different ways to many differnet people. We humans, are so stubborn, depraved and born into death, that we think we know when we are elected, we have faith, when we deny Him, etc etc etc...but little do we know, that God's plan all along included everything that happened in my life, your life, and everyone else's life for that matter.

For ONLY the purpose of PRAISE, GLORY and LOVE. And it may take the death of a little child and the extruciating grievances of a lonely mother, or the heroin addiction of one of the greatest minds in history, it may take the death of 10 Million people, it may take the geniune love of the richest man in the world, but each and every little nuance is part of the overall PLAN of God. He isn't up there orchestrating this, or poking His finger in the hearts of man to do evil; He knows everything that is going to happen at any moment in time any time in every dimension He created, and He intervenes for His glory, and doesn't, FOR HIS GLORY.

This is His creation, and it was "good."
It wasn't until He created Man, then He stopped calling it "good."
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
Mal 3:6

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

No he doesn't change, any more than changing your mind makes you anything other than human.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:04 PM
 
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"For I am the Lord, I do not change!" Malachi 3:6
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:01 PM
 
672 posts, read 537,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
No he doesn't change, any more than changing your mind makes you anything other than human.
Is there a verse that says God changed His Mind ?


I dont believe God changes His Mind, job 23:




13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:05 PM
 
672 posts, read 537,992 times
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scio:

Quote:
This is His creation, and it was "good."
It wasn't until He created Man, then He stopped calling it "good."
When He created Man, He says it was very good gen 1:


26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:20 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,697,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
Is there a verse that says God changed His Mind ?


I dont believe God changes His Mind, job 23:




13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
Ex 32:14 So Yahweh showed mercy concerning the evil which He spoke of doing to His people.

Like I said, God changing his mind does not change God.

The arguments try to say that God changing his mind is equal to God changing, that is not true.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,300,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Ex 32:14 So Yahweh showed mercy concerning the evil which He spoke of doing to His people.

Like I said, God changing his mind does not change God.

The arguments try to say that God changing his mind is equal to God changing, that is not true.
Why did He show mercy?

God doesn't change His mind, He tells us there are two paths, and the results of both of them.
Praise Him, mercy, Don't Praise Him, no mercy.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:34 PM
 
3,587 posts, read 465,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Why did He show mercy?

God doesn't change His mind, He tells us there are two paths, and the results of both of them.
Praise Him, mercy, Don't Praise Him, no mercy.
Where does judgment come in? What is the purpose of judgment?
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Where does judgment come in? What is the purpose of judgment?
For who? The righteous or the wicked? Or both?
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:24 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,697,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Why did He show mercy?

God doesn't change His mind, He tells us there are two paths, and the results of both of them.
Praise Him, mercy, Don't Praise Him, no mercy.

You need to read the whole passage that the verse I posted is from. If God did not change his mind, then what point did Moses have in pleading with God on behalf of the people?

And when He descended down from the mountain those same people he pleaded for were not praising God, so that does not fit within what you have stated.
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