U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 04-16-2010, 08:35 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,710,060 times
Reputation: 1351

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
The onus is on you. I live by faith and by the Word of God, so I don't have to explain things from scientific evidence. I look at all these things, i.e., the moral decline, Israel's regathering, wars, earthquakes, famines, pestilences, etc..., coming together at once, and I know Jesus is at the door. I put complete faith in thus saith the Lord. Jesus said there would be great earthquakes and fearful things coming upon the earth, so that's all I need to know.
So we dismiss the scientific evidence when it interferes with our "faith" but lean on it when it supports it? Scgraham, NO OFFENSE, but I don't think this is fair. Do you?

Wars - been happening since man got here

Famines - Same

Pestilences - Same

Earthquakes - Same (even BEFORE man got here)

Moral decline - ebb and flow

 
Old 04-16-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,062,995 times
Reputation: 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
I also like how you placed that veiled threat into your post ("their own demise") just for good measure,eh...It never amazes me the length to what some people will go to, in order to make their self feel vindicated. An interesting quote I read today from the late great,Charles Schultz, goes a little something like this:"Don't worry about the end of the world coming today. It's already tomorrow in Australia".
Thx for noticing that as well, numbskull (you're far from it of course...). I thought it was perhaps my vast inferiority complex, being a immoral professional biologist and all.... As for Charles' comment; from the mouths of the least expected, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Sadly, some people resist God to their own demise.

Revelation 16
(snipped for brevity)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Bless you.....let's keep it flowing!
Keep exactly what flowing Betsy, relative to the OP's original suggestion? Perhaps I mistook this as an open discussion about earthquakes and end-time prophecy? Because then there's scgraham's thinly disguised "threat" post to anyone who resist's God's warnings. But what if those warnings are simply imagined or out of synch with reality? Then what? Go with them anyhow?

The irrefutable evidence for current earthquake frequencies clearly indicates they are on the decrease. The OP's author clearly wants an interpretation, despite the facts, that they are 1) on the increase, and therefore, assumptively, 2) a clear and unmistakable sign of the End Times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
If the number, frequency and/or occurrences of these earthquakes were "usual", then there would be no speculation about "all these earthquakes". Furthermore, there would be no experts coming out to dispel what people are speculating about if everything is par for the course.
Wrong. We stopped most news coverage of Apollo missions after the first two or three, yawning on four and five and most Americans polled didn't know there were, in fact, six moon landings. So what you say? We're currently fascinated by the earthquakes, but again, they are not happening in any higher frequency than twenty or ten or five years ago. In fact, the count shows LESS rather than more.

Your experts coming out are where again? I see no widespread announcements that all is Okey-Dokey in plate tectonic land, but I do see recent frequent religion-based appeals to emotion (and your $$$ contributions of course...) rather than fact on the part of many End-Times types, that it's all over but for the singing fat lady, and soon! But on what basis? Certainly not on the frequency of earthquakes. Or volcanoes.

Just this morning, the secular press noted that this Icelandic volcano is small potatoes, but that it's simply happening upwind of the major Euro flight corridors is all. They're just taking precautions. No End Times Holy Disarray. In Alaska, south-west of Anchorage, these sorts of volcanic eruptions occur often, but Mt. Redoubt's cloud of ash generally drifts off somewhere harmless, or Alaska Airlines simply flies around the cloud. But nonetheless; is it a clear sign of God's increasing restless attitude? Does He need a Rolaids?

Unsupportable pronouncements and wild-a$$ threats are easily spotted I'm afraid.

Worth repeating; (Thx IIDA)
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
All the increased attention about earthquakes has a direct correlation to the one that just occurred in Haiti just like Katrina created increased interest in hurricanes and the great Tsunami of 2004 also increased interest in earthquakes and big waves. Also the countless subsequent documentaries on these subjects will NOT let them die.

If technology was not what it was today, the frequency would still be the same, but there would be less knowledge and less yapping about them.
But their occurrence is also a (excuse the pun) Godsend for the various Christian TV shows, which love a good scary End-Times prognostication to bolster contributions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
That's simply your opinion, as we have no way of knowing the number, frequency and occurrences of earthquakes centuries ago.
Not necessary. Not opinion. You didn't bother to read my link, obviously. Afraid of what it says? It clearly notes all the factors involved in accurate measurements, and all the catalogs of documented earthquake activity & severity taken over the past at least 40 years. No increase in that period. Nada. And certainly not in the last year or 5. In fact, I'll tell you again and again, LESS frequency!

I'll also say AGAIN, this commentary is from a Christian group. A level-headed one to be sure, but still, they are "of the faith"!! They just don't buy into mass hysteria, and cite such unbecoming behavior for what it is, even within their own!

[/quote]Even within the past one hundred years, technology has gotten better and better to more accurately detect earthquakes; therefore, even the experts have to speculate on what was "normal" 100 years ago because the technology was not as advanced as it is today. If there are more sensors to detect earthquakes today, how could anyone possibly make an assertion that our activity today is the same as years past? This argument about the advancement of technology is turned back on them.[/quote]

Or, "How could anyone claim there are more?" You step on thine own neck, scg!

Said the same way, again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
So if we follow your argument, how do we know they are INCREASING today? You must be basing your conclusion on some findings.
Yep! Thanks again, IIDA. How is this so obvious to you and I, and not to scg and others here? Is it because they simply choose and want to believe in predicted but ambiguous signs of the End Times? At all costs, including personal intellectual honesty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
The onus is on you. I live by faith and by the Word of God, so I don't have to explain things from scientific evidence. I look at all these things, i.e., the moral decline, Israel's regathering, wars, earthquakes, famines, pestilences, etc..., coming together at once, and I know Jesus is at the door. I put complete faith in thus saith the Lord. Jesus said there would be great earthquakes and fearful things coming upon the earth, so that's all I need to know.
No. Logical FAIL. If you make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims that clearly fly in the face of documented fact and historical tabulations, then clearly the onus is on you, not us, to re-discredit that which has been already accepted and verified.

Start with the bibliography list at the end of my link and dissemble even a few of them, providing your own verifiable bibliography and credible references. Go for it. (Science works far too hard at peer review and credibility to have it so easily besmirched and discredited by wishful thinking and hoped-for prophecies.)

You cite "all these things": increasing earthquakes (clearly not happening), pestilence (where, exactly?), Israel's gathering (nope. The population of actual Jews in Israel is in decline. It's non-Jewish Arabs that are increasing it's population, by the recent Israeli census.) Famine? Of course, but that's been ongoing for centuries in many parts of the under-developed world. But then, you also add in the real ringer comment....

"Coming together at once" Well huh? Sorry; no go. In your dreams, I'm afraid. Only in your dreams. No significant change at present, just better reporting is all.

Oh and BTW, please: no more thinly veiled scriptural threats against me or my eternal soul. It's intellectually unbecoming of you, and I hardly deserve it for simply pointing out or openly debating errors in your argument.

By comparison, perhaps you might tell us all about what God says about those who would purposefully and needlessly alarm people, by faked or fabricated information. Or lead them into false hopes in the case of End-Timers. I'm not a biblical scholar like you, so I'll happily bow to your information on that topic.

Last edited by rifleman; 04-16-2010 at 10:28 AM..
 
Old 04-16-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,384,960 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
The point I am making is that no matter what God is doing people will try to dismiss it -- and to their own demise. If these earthquakes were "usual", then no one would be noticing them.
I think your statement would be true if the same can be said for murders in a city, for example. If a murder occurs in a city every day can that be said to be "usual" and therefore why do we notice them?

Being in the Pacific Northwest I can say that we don't notice all the little quakes but the info is compiled should we want to look at it.

Earthquakes may not have a pattern but there are regions where the plates rub more frequently. That is what makes it usual and the loss of life and property makes it noteworthy. What earthquakes you have heard about are only 1/10 of those actually occurring.

Murders in the city may not have a pattern but in a city filled with people we realize it is bound to happen more than in a rural area. This is usual but we do take notice of all murders, yet only certain ones are noteworthy.

I see what you are trying to say, and perhaps one day the earth will change dramatically. We, however, only have a small portion of total earthquakes recorded so I don't think we can even determine what is unusual and usual for earth quakes. If there is an earthquake every 4000 years in California that wipes out the coastline... we would think that unusual when it happened unless we had a record of it from 4000 years ago.. right?

Anyway... JMO
 
Old 04-16-2010, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,062,995 times
Reputation: 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I think your statement would be true if the same can be said for murders in a city, for example. If a murder occurs in a city every day can that be said to be "usual" and therefore why do we notice them?

Murders in the city may not have a pattern but in a city filled with people we realize it is bound to happen more than in a rural area. This is usual but we do take notice of all murders, yet only certain ones are noteworthy.
THANKS JJ! True enough. Interestingly, in my original Canadian hometown, the murder rate has risen spectacularly due to Asian drug gang violence. The city has become sensitized to these, and the headlines no longer just report on page two ..

"Another gangland slaying this weekend in the Mall"

...but rather they splat THIS across the front pages:

"MORE SENSELESS AND VIOLENT CRIMES OCCURRING DESPITE POLICE CHIEF'S BEST EFFORTS. ALL IS LOST!"


Proponents of ever-more-onerous laws and limitations to the law-abiding do not then also note a headline such as ...

"SEATTLE'S VIOLENCE RATE AT AN ALL-TIME RECORD LOW! ALL IS LOST!"


Why? Because such a report does not sell papers. Nor would an

"All the world's tectonic plates seem quiet tonight. And in other news, a tulip bloomed on West 41st street yesterday!"

...headline do much for the Sunday morning TV-Evangelist shows.
 
Old 04-16-2010, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,384,960 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
THANKS JJ! True enough. Interestingly, in my original Canadian hometown, the murder rate has risen spectacularly due to Asian drug gang violence. The city has become sensitized to these, and the headlines no longer just report on page two ..

"Another gangland slaying this weekend in the Mall"

...but rather they splat THIS across the front pages:

"MORE SENSELESS AND VIOLENT CRIMES OCCURRING DESPITE POLICE CHIEF'S BEST EFFORTS. ALL IS LOST!"


Proponents of ever-more-onerous laws and limitations to the law-abiding do not then also note a headline such as ...

"SEATTLE'S VIOLENCE RATE AT AN ALL-TIME RECORD LOW! ALL IS LOST!"


Why? Because such a report does not sell papers. Nor would an

"All the world's tectonic plates seem quiet tonight. And in other news, a tulip bloomed on West 41st street yesterday!"

...headline do much for the Sunday morning TV-Evangelist shows.
"Falling poodles cause for concern? A french poodle fell from a 51st street window yesterday, killing a pedestrian..."

This phenomenon can be applied to just about anything in the chaotic world we live in.

I am just trying to bring a little rational comparison to other things which happen yet aren't reported. I guess it's a question of record-keeping. Who knows what will happen, but I don't think it can be directly related to an end times doomsday theory, just because earthquakes are usual or unusual to humans. We just don't have enough information on possible patterns.
 
Old 04-16-2010, 03:16 PM
 
260 posts, read 331,740 times
Reputation: 216
First off...Thanks ,Rifleman, for the kind words(i'll give ya a rep, once i'm finished typing, some of my thoughts down). Didn't ,Jesus, tell his followers anyway, that trying to predict the end of times, was a wicked expenditure ,and should worry more about, what's going on in their lives at this moment?Saying in effect, if i'm correct," to not be anxious at all, for it doesn't add a minute to one's life"... He probably knew this type of ,fanaticism, would drive ,would be converts, away...and I do agree with all who think ,the New's, is just sensationalizing the whole bit, as they do the politics and ad infinitum, anything else they can get their grubby little hands on to sale a story(these are tough times economically and papers don't sale themselves). Peace...Gary Coleman for Prez in 2012(the "What you talking about Willis" ticket)...

Last edited by Miss Blue; 04-19-2010 at 11:13 AM..
 
Old 04-16-2010, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,062,995 times
Reputation: 3717
Default "Prezidahnt Prevaricator will now make some comments!

Hey: Gary Coleman for Prez, you bet! After all, we've broken the race barrier, next will be the height barrier, and sooner or later, the "No heathen Atheist Presidents!" barrier. After all, frankly, we already had one: Wild Bill Clinton (and his wife, who actually ran the show from periscope depth....)

(Oh sure; he attended Church from time to time, All for show. Especially since he no longer attends 'cept when the cameras are watching. Then, he can also cry on demand!).

(BTW, there were no new major earthquakes this afternoon... In fact, it was kinda quiet...)

Last edited by rifleman; 04-16-2010 at 08:27 PM.. Reason: nothin' else to do....
 
Old 04-17-2010, 12:19 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,222,060 times
Reputation: 250
lol rifle,great post!
 
Old 04-17-2010, 12:23 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,222,060 times
Reputation: 250
correction,pls delete

Last edited by SC122; 04-17-2010 at 01:08 AM..
 
Old 04-17-2010, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,062,995 times
Reputation: 3717
Default Perspective. It's all in one's Perspective. Right?

Now that my personal terror level has been piqued by the suggestion that all the earth's various convulsions this last few weeks are precursors to the ET, I've been monitoring them closely for signs. You know; from a strictly scientific perspective: facts, not histrionics.

Well, given the socio-economic impact of the Icelandic volcano, I wasn't surprised that scientists would like to be able to tell if or when it might be either quieting down or ramping up. So they've been monitoring several GPS transmitters with satellite uplinks onboard on the volcano's dome.

Last week those sensors were moving further apart, clearly indicating that the dome was bulging. This coincided with the eruptions. But as of yesterday, the dome was actually contracting. This clearly indicates that the dome's internal pressure, caused by magma inflow, is subsiding. No-one can or will say for sure what will happen next, but past experience on the world's volcanoes, all being carefully monitored by these volcanologists, has validated such measurement conclusions in many other cases of volcanoes "breathing", up and down, in and out, erupting or quieting down.

So, despite the stern (*but quietly gleeful) "mark my words" warnings from some, this is, in fact, just another fine textbook example of a volcano venting to reduce pent-up internal pressure. Of course volcanoes are notoriously unpredictable, but then, if we were to believe the ET ranters back when Mt. St. Helen's blew it's lid, that was absolutely The ET precursor, no doubt!

A quick check on the documented frequency of volcanoes indicates that, in fact, the world's volcanoes are in a subsident period, and that they do come in cluster waves, as do earthquakes, perhaps one event tripping another until the bunch of them are all "relieved". This is both reasonable and observable.

There's lots of info free for the reading if you come out from under the bed and turn the lights back on! For instance: Basic volcanology with commentary about frequency and severity:

Volcanoes - Sites of Volcanism, Distribution, Eruption Frequency, and Magnitude, Eruption Mechanisms, Eruption Types and Hazards

Finally, directly contradicting those ET/Doom & Gloom prognostications, various more rational organizations have duly noted that the current ban on Euro flights has directly benefited the global ecosystem by eliminating the injection of well over 200 tonnes of CO2 per day, the saving of thousands of gallons of jet A fuel, and the reduction in sound contamination near all those airports. It's a matter of perspective, huh?

The ET D&G crowd are all psychologically hunkered down waiting and wishing for a colossal catastrophe, while the ground-based transportation industry in Europe (trains, buses, ferries, taxis, plus hotels near airports) are all praising the Lord for finally answering their prayers for a better business year! All hugely positive effects!

And as for the global volcanic scene, it's just business as usual, but this one happened by chance to be upwind of a major airflight corridor.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top