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Old 04-19-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,718,677 times
Reputation: 1351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
God has more than proven Himself to me, because I obey Him; good tangible evidence of my faith. It's wonderful to know that I abide in Him, and He in me. Jesus said, seek and ye shall find; that is the secret to it all. Honest-hearted people who humble themselves before the Lord God Almighty will see His wonderful works and blessings. The disobedient will never understand the things of God.

Meanwhile, these earthquakes are just as God said they would be, because what He says comes to pass.
Ok sir! Nothing more I can say about that as I can't argue against "faith."

 
Old 04-19-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,718,677 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I respect the fact that you actually took your time out to read what it said and analyzed half of it under your own perception. I don't want to respond to everything you had to say because I am not willing to get into another argument with you. But I however do not agree with your last statement. I don't think it's cookie cutter writing. You know better than most atheist what the author was talking about because all of it was written in the bible and I assume as you were a christian for 15 years, you are familiar with all of it. I don't get how you say it's alot of made up things that aren't there when you read them for yourself. Just because your an atheist now doesn't mean you have to make up a false sense of reality about it all. It's all there in the book.
Allen, both of my feet are solidly planted in reality my friend. Take a look at the picture below. This is basically how things are being argued here and in just about ALL of the threads around here where opposing sides argue. PLEASE do not be offended and try to see the point that is being made and be honest with yourself.


http://www.cognitive-edge.com/blogs/dave/ca230_1trever-1.gif (broken link)
 
Old 04-19-2010, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,075,019 times
Reputation: 3717
Default Here we go....

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Really? You really had to go that low? I feel sorry for you. If there's one thing I do, I try to learn from the past. And what I learned is that arguing with people of no religion is not going to get anywhere. However, don't you tell me to stf-u when your not a christian and are on the christian forums antagonizing me for speaking my mind. That is ignorance. Because if you did not want to hear anyone talk about God, you shouldn't be here! You have some nerve saying stf-u. Actually you said STFrikU as if your slick or something and that makes it any better. No. Second of all, God does not have to show you (we like you said) jack squat. He created you! What exactly does he have to prove to you?! You should thank the Lord he died for your sins and that your alive and well today to be insulting him like this! The audacity of you.
You said: "If there's one thing I do, I try to learn from the past." Really?

Actually, what I REALLY said, allen, quite obviously if you read it carefully, and weren't so paranoid, was: If nothing happens on a day you precisely designate, your specific date and time and exactly-described event, then, from that point on, do NOT bother us with inane, unsupported and as you ADMIT, hypothetical ,but essentially rabid and overblown predictions. No more, until you have some positive history behind your claims. That's what I obviously meant.

But far more succinctly, I said when your prediction doesn't happen, perhaps all of you desperate ET hopefuls could just, well, you saw the ACRONYM. Because, my friends, so far, none of them have happened. Over the course of the last 2000 or so years, the religious have insisted all these things are going to happen. Now, some of them have sort-kinda happened, but only in the most vague ways, because the original "prophecies" are so amazingly ambiguous; "And God said the sun would be rather hot one day when a rabbit passeth in front of your tent..." Whooo-hooo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
So he wasn't attacking me by telling me to stf-u?...
Attack? Nope. Paranoid are we? It was just a suggestion if you couldn't "produce" any actual ET predictions. Read my simple and obvious explanations above and below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893
Listen. You don't have to believe. It's your life. But don't tell me to shut up with cruel words and your not even a christian on the christian forums telling them to shut up! What sense does that make? Honestly. He just came out of the woodworks with all that. I don't even know the guy and I sure as heck wasn't talking to him! Like what?? I am still confused where he came from.
Cruel words? You don't know what an "If... Then" logic decision is, do you? As in" If your ET claims are unsupported, unfounded and cannot be demonstrated, then don't make them any more." Yes, my "cruel" ACRONYM was far shorter, but it did nonetheless express our overall irritation at the endless "assured pronouncements" of ETrs. It was aimed, again, obviously, at all the ET posters who come on here whenever something suits their fantasy about the End Times.

You think we're not tired of those empty predictions? An earthquake happens and my Christian friends (from back when I was a Christian, BTW. I've been in your camp but didn't like the lies and subterfuge.) all start moaning and wailing about how "It's ALL going to END, I Tell you!"

You think that's not tiresome and irritating? Did you guys ever think that perhaps those of us more grounded in fact and evidence might get tired of such relentlessly over-chanted stuff? Well let me tell you what we all say behind your backs: "Why don't they SHFrickU for a change? Just give it a rest for the next few months at least, because it's all been empty so far".

To wit: We're still here. No ET yet. Yawn. When I PROVED, with established data you obviously didn't want to read, information gathered over the past few decades (not just so far this year...) which clearly explains the hows and whys of past improvements in earthquake documentation (note: not actual increases in occurrences, just in documented ones), you call it nonsense. Good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk
What you were talking about how the extreme weather forum got locked and you didn't see any evidence that earthquakes were on the increase. We never got anywhere because all the atheist ever posted were USGS stats, sarcastic comments, and speculation from scientist which never proved anything because the year is not over to compare to the previous years anyway. Besides that, what I was trying to say was that all you needed was common sense to figure out everything for yourself. There was a comment I read on CNN from a 55-year old woman that said in her 55 years on Earth she had never heard of so many earthquakes occurring than now. She said she was not even a christian but that what the bible was saying seemed to be true from that standpoint.
You mean she said what she "felt", and she didn't mention that 40 years earlier, the Atlantic Ocean could have drained and she'd not hear about it for several weeks, the Pony Express being what it was and all...

Common sense that you put so much trust in goes both ways, allen. Example: you have heard or read that the number and intensity of earthquakes in on the rise. Oh-oh, huh? (that still wouldn't mean the ETs are upon us, BTW). But OK; good & fine. So next, let's check out that mere hypothesis; that's the other shoe dropping that you forgot about. Checking it out. We who want the whole story, all the facts, all the opinions and alternate hypotheses, apply some very rigorous standards.

And BINGO: what we've found is that, no, this is simply NOT true. Now you can refute it all day long, because you want to apply your unique particular brand of common sense based on the kind of thinking you quoted with some 55 yr old woman who saw something on CNN and with only that as her basis, and her unique "common sense", decided that earthquakes are on the increase. Do you think she might have WANTED to come to that conclusion, as you and others here so obviously do?

Well, sorry. It's NOT just the USGS, which I gather you do not like nor agree with because, well heck; they do keep blowing holes in your Common Sense Hypothesis methodology. It's exactly like devout Christians literally hating, first Darwin, who was a Christian, and then Dawkins. Precisely because of what they have to say. You know, that same freedom of speech you insist we all have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
It's not a statistical claim! It's common sense! Good lord! Without data, without quotes from scientist, without quoting the bible, what does your common sense tell you!? Make a hypothesis for heaven's sake!

Then when the year is up, collect all the data from your hypothesis, compare it to the recorded facts from USGS, then talk like the guy with the big draws! Lord have mercy some people never get it!
Well, again, asked and answered. Quick question to you: how many non-USGS sources did my link quote to validate their conclusions that earthquakes are on the decline? Quick now: no peeking. (you didn't read the article, did you?) Second: who were the authors of this interesting little extensive review? Atheists?

Nope. It's a "common-sense": Christian group who are perhaps tired of being tarred with the "hysteria & histrionics" brush that does, in fact, apply to most ET dogmatists.

That's not only a fact, it's "common sense". Oh well, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Your talking about ideas and beliefs, not what is actually happening.

Look - first establish that things are (quote) "getting crazy". Then we can hypothesize why.

rifleman's comment: Exactly, fb. And then, after we hypothesize, we don't then immediately come to conclusions based solely on hypothecies, or on what we might define as "common sense". We test our hypothesis. This is the part so clearly missing in allenk's demonstrably weak argument. He doesn't choose, probably on purpose, to go through that next step because, well, it will almost always prove him wrong. So hey; let's just drop the part where we test the hypothesis. In the name of "common sense".

Yup.


Your post shows that you are just going with what you think - which is fine - think whatever you want, but you can't just make up stuff about literal physical verifiable events - it doesn't work that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I said use common sense
I said use common sense
I said use common sense
I said use common sense
I said use common sense
I said use common sense


I SAID USE COMMON SENSE!!!!
Why thank you. Yep: you've clearly established your chanting mantra, but again, you've left out the part where you then test your common sense idea. You want to stop wayyyy toooo early. And then you obviously dismiss the ideas you don't like. That makes "sense".

Actually, that very common sense tells us that, absent media sensationalism and the obvious desires for End Time prophecies to come true as soon as possible so you don't miss it (as all your predecessors so obviously have), we should at least take a casual stab at checking our ideas out.

When we do, it seems that these prophecies, including increases in earthquake activity, are not happening.

BTW, as others have painfully pointed out, the vast increase in the global transmission of knowledge, even out of China and the ex-Soviet Union, has simply shown what has been happening all along. So did Russian TV cover the spectacular"impact" of the Tunguska meteor up in Siberia back in 1908? What's that you say? There was no TV back then? Well that explains it then, huh? We can't have a good End times phear-phobia session without good global TV mass media to hype it all into an uncontrolled mass panic. That, my friends, sells advertising on the networks, as well on the Sunday TV Evangelist shows. Pat Robertson soberly intoning that "The world's gonna end, and SOON! BTW, send your generous donations to PO Box...."

Apparently in Siberia it was a global climate-altering and monumentally destructive impact that flattened the uninhabited Siberian forests for about a 850 sq mile area. If that had been Los Angeles, the city would have ALL been gone, and the End Times would have OBVIOUSLY begun, as predicted.

Yep. It's just common sense. Yah gotta love it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
And I'm glad he did. At least he read it and analyzed it for himself. I can respect that. You probably did not read a thing which is typical because of course you would do anything to keep your eyes from the truth.
Wait... who's the person making this accusation? "Didn't read something!"? Actually, on reading the presumptive OP, I simply did a bit of Internet research and quickly found the link I posted. It's you who didn't read something, in fact. Hypocrisy run amok....

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Common sense says you don't develop a hypothesis as to why something is happening if it isn't happening.

If it happens (an unusual number of quakes for the year or unusually larger quakes during the year) then we can discuss why at that point. And I'm sure we will. It could happen you know. Just hasn't happened yet.

Do you ignore the fact that quakes are actually down a bit for the last several years? What does common sense tell you about that?
That it should be dismissed as unblinking atheism, I'd say.
________________________________

It's obvious that the likes of allenk here do not want us atheists wandering over to this sub-forum. At all. Ever. (tho' they are more than welcome over on the R&P forum, where they ruthlessly go for our jugulars at every opp...) They prefer perhaps an unquestioned self-aggrandizement society here, where anything that is biblically negative is never mentioned or reviewed.

How sad for them, when honest questioning is not allowed.

Last edited by rifleman; 04-19-2010 at 11:12 AM..
 
Old 04-19-2010, 10:56 AM
 
20,319 posts, read 15,670,237 times
Reputation: 7433
I had done a thread on the subject of the Olivet Discourse in which the prophecy concerning the earthquakes was mentioned. But the thread mostly got overlooked. But here it is for whoever may be interested...

Understanding the Olivet Discourse
 
Old 04-19-2010, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,075,019 times
Reputation: 3717
Cool Again, we assume so much.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Verifiable data? That is your criteria, as you guys want some scientists, who probably believe that we came from apes, to confirm something for you.
Yes, that's common sense, as someone else here insists is the be-all, end-all. You can claim the moon's made of cheese, but since that doesn't make any sense, we'd like to verify your absurd claim. Which we did, and Neal Armstrong noted it clearly wasn't made of cheese. You, apparently, might still refute that if you urgently WANTED the moon to made of cheese. Go for it. just don't then wonder why we don't agree with you. Same for the endlessly irritating ET predictions. T'aint' gonna happen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
That's your choice, not mine. As already stated, the lack of technology in the past can neither verify nor dispel, from a "scientific" perspective, that this earthquake activity is either normal or abnormal. Therefore, you have no case based on your own definition of verifiable data.
So. You also didn't read my link did you? There's really good data for at least the last 25 or more years, and compared to even the last 10, the past several years show a DECREASE in earthquake severity and frequency. I know: it's not good enough for your ET predictons I know, but hey; for those of us who have actual "common sense" it is quite conclusive. It certainly DOESN'T show any INCREASE, now does it?

Quote:
Now, for the believer, our facts are thus saith the Lord. God said there would be earthquakes and terrible things coming upon the earth, and that is what has happened, is happening and will be happening.
And which hole did you pull this "fact" out of? It's patently WRONG. I've already shown that there's a decrease, and yet here you are claiming, with no data except CNN's latest hype story, that there's an increase.

Alternately, is there any evidence that perhaps the End Times prognosticators are feeding into mass fear frenzy, or that they are making thing up. Any evidence? Anyone? Anyone?

Answer: Clearly and demonstrably, yes. Right here, right now. On this very thread.

Quote:
The birth of Israel in 1948 was a prophesy fulfilled against great odds. Jesus said that the generation that saw this would see it all unfold. It's not a new thing for unbelievers to scoff at what is happening, as the Bible is filled with naysayers throughout the Word of God. Did there scoffing change anything? No. They simply go down just like Pharaoh.
And yet, it was a simple and obvious solution to the problem the Brits and the UN had, and it was simply a reassignment of a traditional homeland. it was inevitable. So are future meteor impacts, big volcanoes, big earthquakes and, with our burgeoning population, (promoted mostly by religious suppression of birth control) there will be nasty diseases rapidly transmitted by today's global travel ease.

Are you aware of the huge Yellowstone caldera, and the line of previous eruption calderas that are now identified showing previous massive blasts about every 10,000 years? It will happen again, and may end a lot of life on earth. For Christians, it will be the End Times for their religion, but for some tiny rodent that can live in caves for, say, ten years, it will simply start another round of inevitable evolution. Perhaps the next inheritors of truth & light will be smarter, more altruistic and less aggressively egotistical. In other words, perhaps less fervently "religious" and all that implies.
 
Old 04-19-2010, 12:20 PM
 
672 posts, read 537,032 times
Reputation: 38
Even though earthquakes are not unusual, they shall become more frequent and news worthy as we draw to the end.
 
Old 04-19-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,466 posts, read 21,220,101 times
Reputation: 17686
When threads turn to insults, flames, numerous derailings and many mod edits and deletions for personal attacks, rudeness and profanityit is time to be...

closed
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