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Old 04-21-2010, 07:34 AM
 
162 posts, read 176,981 times
Reputation: 27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
airo:



Ok then, you bringing that comment up had no relevance at all to the discussion.

God makes His people sensible sinners by a work of the Holy Spirit in them..blessed are them that mourn [ for sin] for they shall be comforted.

Matt 5:3-4

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
i'm not going to continue this pointless roundabout with you. you are clouding the simple message in the OP to come to Christ. no man has any excuse to not respond to the call. now please, let's not argue here and detract from the purpose of the OP, and that is to share the message of salvation.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:00 PM
 
672 posts, read 536,479 times
Reputation: 38
airo:

Quote:
no man has any excuse to not respond to the call
All are not called. and the ones who are, are saved already.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:55 AM
 
162 posts, read 176,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
airo:



All are not called. and the ones who are, are saved already.
hyper-calvinism.

so you believe evangelism is futile?
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:39 AM
 
672 posts, read 536,479 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
hyper-calvinism.

so you believe evangelism is futile?
You can call it names if you want, but its biblical. Sure evengelism, is relevant, for the elect sake 2 tim 2:

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's [called] sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Thats what makes evangelism, relevant for salvation, because God has a elect or called people, of which He calls them by the Gospel !

2 thess 2:14


Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.




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Old 04-22-2010, 09:49 AM
 
162 posts, read 176,981 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
You can call it names if you want, but its biblical. Sure evengelism, is relevant, for the elect sake 2 tim 2:

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's [called] sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Thats what makes evangelism, relevant for salvation, because God has a elect or called people, of which He calls them by the Gospel !

2 thess 2:14


Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Please take this to heart:

Question: "What is hyper-Calvinism and is it Biblical?"

Answer:
A simple and general definition is this: hyper-Calvinism is the belief that God saves the elect through His sovereign will with little or no use of the methods of bringing about salvation (such as evangelism, preaching, and prayer for the lost). To an unbiblical fault, the hyper-Calvinist over-emphasizes God's sovereignty and under-emphasizes man's responsibility in the work of salvation.

An obvious ramification of this is that the hyper-Calvinist has little, if any, desire to evangelize the lost. Or, if he does, he will not attempt to persuade the unbeliever to faith. Most churches or denominations that hold to hyper-Calvinistic theology are marked by fatalism, coldness, and a lack of assurance of faith. There is little emphasis upon God's love for the lost and His own people but rather an unbiblical and destructive emphasis upon God's sovereignty, His election of the saved, and His wrath for the lost. The gospel of the hyper-Calvinist is a declaration of God's salvation of the elect and His damnation of the lost.

The Bible clearly teaches that God is sovereign over the entire universe (Daniel 4:34-35), including the salvation of men (Ephesians 1:3-12). But in God's sovereignty, the Bible emphasizes that His motivation for saving the lost is love (Ephesians 1:4-5, John 3:16, 1 John 4:9-10) and that God's means of saving the lost is the proclamation of His Word (Romans 10:14-15). The Bible also declares that the Christian is to be passionate and determined in his/her sharing with unbelievers; as ambassadors for Christ, we are to "beg" people to be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20-21).

The above facts fly in the face of hyper-Calvinism and show it to be an unbiblical and destructive understanding of the sovereignty of God and His Word. A fabulous online article regarding this issue is by Phillip Johnson and is found at - http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm. Johnson defines and describes hyper-Calvinism, refutes it and recommends several other resources for study.
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Old 04-22-2010, 02:11 PM
 
696 posts, read 765,100 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Please take this to heart:

Question: "What is hyper-Calvinism and is it Biblical?"

Answer: A simple and general definition is this: hyper-Calvinism is the belief that God saves the elect through His sovereign will with little or no use of the methods of bringing about salvation (such as evangelism, preaching, and prayer for the lost). To an unbiblical fault, the hyper-Calvinist over-emphasizes God's sovereignty and under-emphasizes man's responsibility in the work of salvation.

An obvious ramification of this is that the hyper-Calvinist has little, if any, desire to evangelize the lost. Or, if he does, he will not attempt to persuade the unbeliever to faith. Most churches or denominations that hold to hyper-Calvinistic theology are marked by fatalism, coldness, and a lack of assurance of faith. There is little emphasis upon God's love for the lost and His own people but rather an unbiblical and destructive emphasis upon God's sovereignty, His election of the saved, and His wrath for the lost. The gospel of the hyper-Calvinist is a declaration of God's salvation of the elect and His damnation of the lost.

The Bible clearly teaches that God is sovereign over the entire universe (Daniel 4:34-35), including the salvation of men (Ephesians 1:3-12). But in God's sovereignty, the Bible emphasizes that His motivation for saving the lost is love (Ephesians 1:4-5, John 3:16, 1 John 4:9-10) and that God's means of saving the lost is the proclamation of His Word (Romans 10:14-15). The Bible also declares that the Christian is to be passionate and determined in his/her sharing with unbelievers; as ambassadors for Christ, we are to "beg" people to be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20-21).

The above facts fly in the face of hyper-Calvinism and show it to be an unbiblical and destructive understanding of the sovereignty of God and His Word. A fabulous online article regarding this issue is by Phillip Johnson and is found at - http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm. Johnson defines and describes hyper-Calvinism, refutes it and recommends several other resources for study.
This is a good point and why we must always evanglize all. Last night a visiting pastor and I had a brief discussion that led to the point of hyper-Calvinism which we both agree to be false. If we are to believe in hyper-Calvinism then we must then cast aside the Great Commission itself which Jesus clearly instructed us to carry out. As Christians we know we can not do this and must carry out the command of our Lord, thus the original OP stands we must call all to Christ.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:34 PM
 
15 posts, read 12,394 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Please take this to heart:

Question: "What is hyper-Calvinism and is it Biblical?"

Answer:
A simple and general definition is this: hyper-Calvinism is the belief that God saves the elect through His sovereign will with little or no use of the methods of bringing about salvation (such as evangelism, preaching, and prayer for the lost). To an unbiblical fault, the hyper-Calvinist over-emphasizes God's sovereignty and under-emphasizes man's responsibility in the work of salvation.

An obvious ramification of this is that the hyper-Calvinist has little, if any, desire to evangelize the lost. Or, if he does, he will not attempt to persuade the unbeliever to faith. Most churches or denominations that hold to hyper-Calvinistic theology are marked by fatalism, coldness, and a lack of assurance of faith. There is little emphasis upon God's love for the lost and His own people but rather an unbiblical and destructive emphasis upon God's sovereignty, His election of the saved, and His wrath for the lost. The gospel of the hyper-Calvinist is a declaration of God's salvation of the elect and His damnation of the lost.

The Bible clearly teaches that God is sovereign over the entire universe (Daniel 4:34-35), including the salvation of men (Ephesians 1:3-12). But in God's sovereignty, the Bible emphasizes that His motivation for saving the lost is love (Ephesians 1:4-5, John 3:16, 1 John 4:9-10) and that God's means of saving the lost is the proclamation of His Word (Romans 10:14-15). The Bible also declares that the Christian is to be passionate and determined in his/her sharing with unbelievers; as ambassadors for Christ, we are to "beg" people to be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20-21).

The above facts fly in the face of hyper-Calvinism and show it to be an unbiblical and destructive understanding of the sovereignty of God and His Word. A fabulous online article regarding this issue is by Phillip Johnson and is found at - http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm. Johnson defines and describes hyper-Calvinism, refutes it and recommends several other resources for study.
Interesting take on hyper-Calvinism. There are some differing thoughts to consider when studying the subject matter. Here is one such web-site refuting the "fabulous" Phil Johnson article:

Predestinarian Network - Hyper-Calvinism is the Truth
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:46 PM
 
15 posts, read 12,394 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
This is a good point and why we must always evanglize all. Last night a visiting pastor and I had a brief discussion that led to the point of hyper-Calvinism which we both agree to be false. If we are to believe in hyper-Calvinism then we must then cast aside the Great Commission itself which Jesus clearly instructed us to carry out. As Christians we know we can not do this and must carry out the command of our Lord, thus the original OP stands we must call all to Christ.
Also interesting....yeah, I got it......there must be a conspiracy against the hyper-Calvinist's going on tonight.

What do you guys think is worse? Those deplorable hyper-Calvinists or the teachings of Arminius. Here is a website to consider:

The Damnable Heresy of Arminianism

And for general reading on the subject:
OUTSIDE THE CAMP

Happy reading
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:10 PM
 
15 posts, read 12,394 times
Reputation: 13
How do you get the URL's to post correctly? I'm having some problems here...sorry
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:27 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,413,364 times
Reputation: 5146
www.outsidethecamp.org
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