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Old 04-16-2010, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,277 posts, read 20,883,681 times
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Originally Posted by hljc View Post
If we do not know Jesus Christ or his Spirit than we will die in your sins. and be lost to the Lord God forever, because The Lord is a God of Goodness and Rightousness and he rejects the darkness of this world..........So if we believe you can reject knowing Jesus and murderers and rapist live forever than we are deceived and there is no truth in us....legalism is a dead end and thaws the Holy Spirit in his tracks........ Heaven is for the rightous who know Jesus and Holy Spirit is the only Person on the earth how knows where Heaven is so if we pass on Holy Spirit of The Son of God than we pass on Heaven...... Jesus rejoiced that the unrightous religous of his day will not be going to Heaven `` saying you have to far more than the scribs and the pharisees to enter the kingdom of Heaven````... so we have to ask if we are far better rightous than these types of groups or why bother even knowing Jesus or God at all.........
I think you missed the whole point of my question, hljc. This is not another one of those threads where we're going to discuss the pros and cons on UR, so please don't try to turn it into one. This thread is about Heaven and what we expect it to be like. If you're convinced that most everybody is going to Hell, then just forget about them for a few minutes and give us your input relative to those people who do make it into heaven. Can you do that?
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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If there is a ,Heaven, I doubt they will have a, caste system ,there like there is here on Earth....having said that; my ideal place would be, where I can finally dunk on a regulation size NBA goal...i've got the ball handling skills, just no leap(cursed genes). Peace
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
That would work in an ideal world, maybe ---- but what about those situations when people have lied, killed and stole while believing they are doing the will of God and have physically died believing that. For them there is no guilt or judgment, so when does judgment happen.

And what of Hebrews, judgment seems to happen after death
Perhaps I am talking more of condemnation than judgment...
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
All Christians want to go to Heaven, whether they figure it's just going to be them as a few close friends or the whole of God's creation. When you think of the afterlife, do you see Heaven as a kind of One-Size-Fits-All kind of place where everyone who actually made it will all find themselves in exactly the same circumstances?

Here's what I'm getting at: On one hand, consider a Christian you've always admired. I'll use Mother Theresa as my example. She lived her life in service to God and her fellow men. She certainly understood the Savior's commandment to love one another and to treat all human beings with respect and dignity. Now think of someone you know who really doesn't strike you as a very good person. When it comes to Christianity, this person is more than willing to talk the talk. He's just not all that good at walking the walk. Anyway, for some reason, God, in His mercy, allows this person to enter Heaven, right along with you and everybody else.

In the end, do you think it's really going to matter how we lived, as long as we get into Heaven? Or is Mother Theresa (or someone else, if you don't admire her as much as I do) going to have a greater reward in Heaven than the person you were kind of surprised to see there?

1. If you think Heaven's going to be the same for everyone who ends up there, what do you think Jesus meant when He said He was going to "judge every man according to his works"?

2. If you think Heaven's going to be different and that greater obedience, faithfulness, and righteousness on Earth are going to result in greater rewards in Heaven, how do you believe those rewards will differ from person to person?
John 3:11-16 Jesus said:

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

PARADISE WAS THE PLACE WHERE GOD CREATED MALE AND FEMALE IN HIS IMAGE, THEREFORE BELIEVE...THE EARTH TO BE OUR HEAVEN - IMO
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,277 posts, read 20,883,681 times
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Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
If there is a ,Heaven, I doubt they will have a, caste system ,there like there is here on Earth....having said that; my ideal place would be, where I can finally dunk on a regulation size NBA goal...i've got the ball handling skills, just no leap(cursed genes). Peace
A caste system?

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul speaks extensively of the resurrection of mankind. In verses 40-42, he says, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead." Is that the kind of caste system you don't believe will exist in Heaven?

To me, Paul is describing various degrees of glory that will exist in the afterlife -- the greatest being like the sun, the next being like the moon, and the next being like the stars. The caste system was devised by men and is not just, but I believe God's judgment will be just. Some will attain a celestial glory, others will attain a terrestrial glory, etc.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:49 PM
 
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Why would it matter if you had a better place in Heaven,which was better than others? Seems like something only the ego would wish to attain...It says though in the ,NT, that some will inherit the Earth, some will see the face of God, and etc...so maybe there is a caste system???
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,277 posts, read 20,883,681 times
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Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
Seems like something only the ego would wish to attain...
Why do you say that? (By the way, I predicted on another thread that, if I asked this question, someone would answer that way.)
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:51 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 454,230 times
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Perhaps I am talking more of condemnation than judgment...
Hmmmm ...... interesting

I do believe that when people see the word judgment they think condemnation......... I do believe that we condemn ourselves with our words and actions, it shows what is in our hearts.

We are told that judgment starts at the house of God. I have th thought that was the judgment that physically came to the Jews in 70AD, but it also spirtiually applies to those that come to the light (Jesus) and allow themselves to be convicted and judged, so that they do not come under condmenation. Those that do not give themselves now to judgment and guilt will need to be judged later.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:57 PM
 
260 posts, read 331,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
A caste system?

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul speaks extensively of the resurrection of mankind. In verses 40-42, he says, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead." Is that the kind of caste system you don't believe will exist in Heaven?

To me, Paul is describing various degrees of glory that will exist in the afterlife -- the greatest being like the sun, the next being like the moon, and the next being like the stars. The caste system was devised by men and is not just, but I believe God's judgment will be just. Some will attain a celestial glory, others will attain a terrestrial glory, etc.
Sorry, I must of struck a chord...but it does seem like those who wish to have a greater glory in the afterlife are puffing up their egos. Isn't the sun a star? And why would a natural satellite like the moon have a greater glory than a star which is similar to the sun just in a different system?
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:58 PM
 
260 posts, read 331,855 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Why do you say that? (By the way, I predicted on another thread that, if I asked this question, someone would answer that way.)
Good for you. The ego wants lots of nice things i.e. clothes, cars, homes...and it seems to me(an opinion just like all of ya'lls) that wanting a better, higher place in the after life is exactly what those men who here on Earth(which you seem to have a problem with, yet have no problem if God is the progenitor of this system) are copying... but i'm sure this is just going to get lost in the sea of semantics and speculations(look I can foretell the future,also)...
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