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Old 04-17-2010, 06:10 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,405,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
no legoman, I'm not.

Matthew 11:24-26
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
  1. Luke 13:23
    Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
Jesus' answer.....yes (re-read God's list)
Jesus' answer.....is not yes; I don't know how you get that from the passage.

Luke 13:
23Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them,
24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'

26"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
27"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'
28"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.
30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."



Notice what this passage says. It doesn't say people won't be saved. It says few will enter the Kingdom. It also says the first will be last, and the last will be first. Now look at this passage:

Matt 8:11 I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here we see reference to who is cast out and weeping and gnashing their teeth. It is the sons of the Kingdom. Also called the children or subjects of the Kingdom. It doesn't say they are not saved, but indeed they do not enter the Kingdom - instead they are the subjects of the Kingdom.

Here is another place where the same question is asked:
Mark 10:
24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
27Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
28Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!"
29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.
31But many who are first will be last, and the last first."



We see the real answer to the question "who can be saved": with man its impossible, but with God all things are possible. What this is all talking about is this idea of an order:

Mat 20:8 When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.

Mat 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

Matt 21:31 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Mark 9:35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all.



The answer to Luke 13:23 is NOT Jesus saying few will be saved. The answer is: The first will be last and the last will be first.

 
Old 04-17-2010, 06:11 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,405,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom - so there you have a complete list narrowed down to one description.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
 
Old 04-17-2010, 06:31 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,564,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
So what about the thief (#6. nor thieves) who hung next to Christ on the cross, or the woman taken in adultery (#3. nor adulterers). Your criteria doesn't seem to allow for repentence. I'm glad God's does.
This. This point was bypassed, not addressed.


It is true, none of these kinds of people enter the kingdom of God:

...neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners...

But these same kinds of people, who turn to the Lord, do enter:


1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Who will turn to the Lord?

Psalm 22:27
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and
All the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship
All they that go down to the dust shall bow before him and
None can keep alive his own soul.

Luke 3:5
Every valley shall be filled, and
Every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and
The crooked shall be made straight, and
The rough ways shall be made smooth and
All flesh shall see the salvation of God
 
Old 04-17-2010, 08:52 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,813,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers: 10 Nor the effeminate nor liers with mankind nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God."

Revelations 22:15 "Without are dogs and sorcerers and unchaste and murderers and servers of idols and every one that loves and makes a lie."

I don't see all 21 things you list in those two. What verse are you getting the part about the wise and learned?
Matthew 11:24-26
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
 
Old 04-17-2010, 08:53 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,405,821 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Matthew 11:24-26
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
So you interpret this as the wise and learned will go to hell?
 
Old 04-17-2010, 09:16 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,749,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I'm a bit cowardly myself, to tell you the truth. Oh, dear.
LOL! That really made me laugh out loud....I'm right there with you Herefornow.
 
Old 04-17-2010, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
LOL! That really made me laugh out loud....I'm right there with you Herefornow.
I learned how to lie from my 3rd grade teacher... I think my teacher was... well *whisper* a liar...

We are both in for it for sure.... but he was right.. if you can't lie properly it causes all sorts of trouble.

But that is what I don't get about this thread...

WWJT about a list of who gets into heaven?
 
Old 04-17-2010, 09:35 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,749,210 times
Reputation: 58198
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I learned how to lie from my 3rd grade teacher... I think my teacher was... well *whisper* a liar...

We are both in for it for sure.... but he was right.. if you can't lie properly it causes all sorts of trouble.

But that is what I don't get about this thread...

WWJT about a list of who gets into heaven?
LOL...I like the *whisper* thing. Oh my, how I used to lie....could look my parents straight in the eye and tell some whoppers. I don't care what anyone says, we all lie and we're all guilty of some or all of those sins listed. I understand why TwinSpin started the thread from his point of view but it makes it sound like NO ONE is going to heaven. I'm discounted just on the cowardly part.
 
Old 04-17-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,813,518 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
So you interpret this as the wise and learned will go to hell?
Those are Jesus' words. Paul (by inspiration) writes it this way:

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.


What is the foolish things of the world that the wise and learned reject?
  • For the message of the cross is foolishness 1 Corinthians 1:18
  • how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Luke 24:25
  • Where is the wise man?... the scholar?... the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1 Corinthians 1:20
  • you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Galatians 3:3
What is it to be shamed by God?....

Psalm 78:66
He beat back his enemies; he put them to everlasting shame.

Jeremiah 23:40
I will bring upon you everlasting disgrace—everlasting shame that will not be forgotten."

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jude 1:13
They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

Last edited by twin.spin; 04-17-2010 at 10:00 AM..
 
Old 04-17-2010, 09:59 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,813,518 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
LOL...I like the *whisper* thing. Oh my, how I used to lie....could look my parents straight in the eye and tell some whoppers. I don't care what anyone says, we all lie and we're all guilty of some or all of those sins listed. I understand why TwinSpin started the thread from his point of view but it makes it sound like NO ONE is going to heaven. I'm discounted just on the cowardly part.

Luke 13:23
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"

Jesus' answer:

Luke 13:24
"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
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