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Old 05-03-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,263,841 times
Reputation: 837

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMISSNY View Post
I am a Christian and when I read my bible Jesus himself heal on the sabbath day this in itself was against biblical law. However, I say this to say, as a Christian we are to worship everday, now it is true that we go to church on Sundays, for fellowship, but I also go Weds, and Fridays too. The church in and of itself has grown beyond the tradition of Sunday's only and I am so so glad that I have matured past that point hey sis Verna where are your from just curious pm if possible
Greetings IMISSNY...everything...EVERYTHING Jesus ever did on the Sabbath in the Bible was done free...He accepted no payment of any kind for anything he did...he allowed the disciples to ream from the ears of corn in the field as they passed through, to show that the "ceremonial laws"...(the one's OTHER than the Ten Commandments), were the one's that were to be hung on the cross...that His final sacrifice would, indeed, cover those "legalistic-Pharaseeical" beliefs...why when David ate of the shew bread of the temple...on the Sabbath...it was all to show us that the "ceremonial laws" are NOT the Ten Commandments...why gathering the "one" lost sheep on the Sabbath...and saving it, was not against keeping the Sabbath Day holy...Saturday IS the seventh day...always has been and forever will be.

It's not wrong to fellowship with other believer's anytime of any day...but as you come to learn that Sabbath Keepers (Saturday) have a truth to know and understand, you'll want to fellowship with them as you will find that the burden of trying to mix "Light" with darkness and unbelief does not bear well with your spirit...the burden is heavy...depressing and oppressive...you'll run out eventually...seeking those who believe in keeping the seventh day holy unto the Lord...like you do...you will learn that those who say they know the Lord, and keepeth not His Commandments are liars and the truth is not in them...and hearing this false teaching, after a while, will envelope you in sadness and heartache. I know.

God Bless you dear soul...may you be found in His truth...and not man's.

In Christ's love for your soul,
Verna.

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Old 05-03-2010, 01:37 PM
 
701 posts, read 661,211 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMISSNY View Post
I am a Christian and when I read my bible Jesus himself heal on the sabbath day this in itself was against biblical law. However, I say this to say, as a Christian we are to worship everday, now it is true that we go to church on Sundays, for fellowship, but I also go Weds, and Fridays too. The church in and of itself has grown beyond the tradition of Sunday's only and I am so so glad that I have matured past that point hey sis Verna where are your from just curious pm if possible
To say that the Sabbath is a tradition would be like saying not using the Lord's name in vain is a tradition. Traditions are man made. It is of such vital importance that we as Christians "study, to show ourselves approved". Christ's act of healing was not against any biblical law. What people forget about was that during Christ's day, there were over 300 man made and non-biblical "laws" (called the rabbinical laws) that had made the Sabbath a burden for the people, which was against God's original intent for the day. God made the Sabbath for man, not man for the Sabbath, which means that He made it to be a blessing to us. He asks of us only 2 things on the Sabbath, don't work and KEEP the day holy. He knows how much of a blessing those 2 things are for His people. As for what it means to KEEP His day holy? Isaiah sums it up nicely:

Isaiah 58:13-14 (New International Version)

13 "If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the LORD's holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,

14 then you will find your joy in the LORD,
and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob."
The mouth of the LORD has spoken.
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,403 posts, read 21,067,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
You are correct that I am a SDA, however you implied that these were not my own personal beliefs, and that I don't think is accurate. I do not hold the beliefs that I hold because I'm a Seventh Day Adventist, I am a Seventh Day Adventist because of the beliefs that I hold. Sounds a bit confusing, but key difference between the two is that I don't let religion dictate my beliefs. My beliefs are based on the word of God, and whatever religion shares those beliefs, I can consider myself a part of.
No, it doesn't sound confusing at all. I know exactly what you're saying and I didn't actually mean to imply what you thought I meant to imply. I just wasn't sure if you were a SDA or if it was just your belief regarding the Sabbath that was the same as theirs. (I could say exactly the same thing about why I am LDS. I'm LDS because I believe what the Church teaches, not the other way around.)

Quote:
I enjoy talking about anything to do with religion, and a host of other topics as well. I know on this forum I have shared with others my views on the rapture, on the state of the dead, on the process and plan of Salvation, and various other topics. i believe in Christ, that He is the only means by which mankind can be saved, through His death on Calvary. I believe that He created this world roughly 6000 years ago. I believe in the Genesis account of Noah's flood. I believe in the very visible and soon Coming of Christ. As to what is the essential part of the Gospel? I believe that essential it is about choice. God gave Adam and Eve a tree and a choice in Eden, and we all know the choice they made. 4000 years later Christ gives us another tree and another choice. I am sorry for coming off so one sided. I recall having a discussion with a friend once, about the 10 Commandments, and after a while she got really flustered, and said "that is all you adventists care about is the 4th commandment". I simply stated that the only reason we seem to spend so much time dealing with the 4th commandment is because it is the only one that many Christians seem to have forgotten. We could discuss all the other nine, but there is not a single other Commandment that I've heard a Christian try to "throw out", only the 4th.
Thanks for pointing those things out. I guess I just haven't been paying all that much attention. And as I said before, you've made some good points about the Sabbath.

Quote:
Please, don't hesitate to ask or even DM me if there is anything you would like to know about what I believe. As I said I love talking about all aspects of religion. I very much appreciate your post and the courtesy you showed in it. Hope I can shed light on any questions you might have for me.
No problem (about the courtesy, at least). I haven't yet found a reason not to be courteous to you.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Hagerman, Idaho
2,236 posts, read 4,878,983 times
Reputation: 2108
OK, now SOMEONE is going to have to get a clue here. Look up the "Council of Leodicea" and see what the Church of Rome did along with Emperor Constantine to alter the original Sabbath day to Sun Day the pagan day of worship. If you want to follow that then you are NOT following YHVH's original Sabbath HE created. To follow ANY church as such in that manner is akin to pagan worship. Sorry but there's no other way to put it. Get educated and learn these simple truths.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,403 posts, read 21,067,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcisive View Post
OK, now SOMEONE is going to have to get a clue here. Look up the "Council of Leodicea" and see what the Church of Rome did along with Emperor Constantine to alter the original Sabbath day to Sun Day the pagan day of worship. If you want to follow that then you are NOT following YHVH's original Sabbath HE created. To follow ANY church as such in that manner is akin to pagan worship. Sorry but there's no other way to put it. Get educated and learn these simple truths.
I'm not one to argue against "facts," and what you have posted about the "Council of Leodicea" is informative and interesting. I'd say it's unwarranted, though, to imply that the millions of Christians who worship on Sunday are practicing "pagan worship." I mean, how many conversations have we all had with people who insist that Christmas is a pagan holiday since Jesus was not actually born on December 25 and since the holiday indesputably has some pagan influences? I don't know about anybody else, but when I celebrate Christmas, I am celebrating the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of some of the pagan origins of the holiday. And when I go to church on Sunday, I am workshipping Him, not some pagan gods.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Hagerman, Idaho
2,236 posts, read 4,878,983 times
Reputation: 2108
Well, in the words of a very wise man I've known along the way (and I don't mean to sound harsh but) "I don't care what it means to YOU, I care what it means the YHVH (HIM)". HE didn't set forth those days as Moadim (appointed times). Man did, and believe me at this point I'd prefer to stay far from mans institutions. It would be NO different than how Yahshua treated those of the Perushim (Pharisees) and their erecting fences to make following the Torah more difficult. It is perhaps one or more of the most misunderstood things regarding our Messiah's walk. He walked in Torah perfectly. The Pharisees did NOT although they held themselves in such high esteem as if they did. Interestingly enough, HE and HIS Talmadim (apostles) all continued to follow in the Jewish traditions and set apart times till their deaths. Contrary to church teachings they did not forsake any of their practices as Jews. This will most probably remain as one of the largest misunderstandings and lies of the churches. Especially where Rav Shaul (Paul) is concerned. Oh well. Lies seem to be the order of the day........
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,403 posts, read 21,067,781 times
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dcisive,

Just a simple yes or no, because maybe I'm reading into what you've said something other than what you meant. Here is the question: Are Christians who worship on Sunday as opposed to Saturday "worshipping pagan gods"? If the answer is 'yes,' how do you account for their hymns, sermons, prayers, etc. that are directed to and pertaining to Jesus Christ.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Hagerman, Idaho
2,236 posts, read 4,878,983 times
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I'll answer your question as any good Yahudah would I'll answer a question with a question just as Messiah did. If you undertake to repair your car. You prepare by gathering some important tools, but gather a good number of incorrect parts that don't fit the car you are attempting to repair, will you successfully repair your car? Does this question require an answer which is not already known. Xtians are at best IMHO "misguided" but indeed in a good number of cases it's not their fault. They inherited the blended and false teachings of the Church of Rome and it's marriage with the pagan practices of Emperor Constantine. They read from Greek translations considering them "the gospel" when in fact the writings were from mostly Hebrews who grew up in and whose mindset was a "Hebrew" mindset, NOT Greek. One does NOT have to be a scholar to realize that the two do NOT mix. The writings from the Hebrew and Aramaic have completely different meanings and intent than would the Greek translations. Do I expect xtianity at large to accept this? Of course not. Why would I expect generations worth of individuals who have been brought up in their traditions of men to drop them at the mere suggestion they have been lied to by their forefathers. The sad thing all they use to support their religions is polluted words from the Greek. Unless you go back and study from the Hebrew and Aramaic roots of the Torah and Tanakh (the foundations of which ALL of the Messiah's and HIS Talmadim learned and taught from) you'll never be expected to get it right. Keep in mind they taught from the scrolls, NOT book, and the so called "new testament" isn't new, it is confirmation of the Torah word for word. Messiah Yahshua NEVER contradicted ONE word of it nor did HIS Talmadim. The church wants to wish this away. It won't happen. As warned in Matthew 5:17-20, HE did NOT come to abolish the Torah but to uphold it and bring it to fullness. Not ONE word would pass away until heaven and earth did, and that's NOT going to happen. PERIOD. I sure wish more church people would figure this out, but alas they want to continue their diatribes of old and the lies that are it's foundation. Perhaps some day they will realize, before it's too late, that they ARE "The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel" and THAT is the ONLY people that Yahshua is returning for I assure you....HE said it NOT me.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,403 posts, read 21,067,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcisive View Post
I'll answer your question as any good Yahudah would I'll answer a question with a question just as Messiah did.
Yeah, but you're not Jesus. I was actually looking for an answer from you, and am disappointed that I'm just getting a run-around. Whatever...
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Hagerman, Idaho
2,236 posts, read 4,878,983 times
Reputation: 2108
I thought the example I wrote was succinct enough. However to elaborate, Yahshua the Messiah (the one YOU call je-us) is NOT YHVH (the one others call G-d). god and lord are in fact words substituted in scripture for YHVH and Elohim and Adonai. They also have pagan roots (sorry to tell ya and many if not most religions still use them). IMHO if you worship your je-us as if HE IS G-d, then I would have to say YES you are worshiping in a pagan fashion. je-sus is NOT YHVH but is HIS representative who came here to teach us how to do the Torah perfectly......HE did. HE also came to be the acceptable sacrifice for our intentional sin (read Romans 11 referring to The Law of Sin and Death) which was being stoned due to intentional sin. THAT is what he has saved us from the enmity of, NOT the Torah as the urch would have you believe. But I may well be preaching to deaf ears....it sure seems that way around this forum as they are so entrenched with the "HE did it all for us we can sit back and enjoy the ride" mentality. Couldn't be further from the truth.
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