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Old 04-18-2010, 03:26 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
1Th 4:13-18 "Now we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren,
concerning those who are reposing, lest you may sorrow according as the
rest, also, who have no expectation." (14) For, if we are believing that
Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are put to repose, will God,
through Jesus, lead forth together with Him." (15) For this we are saying
to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to
the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put
to repose, (16) for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with
a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the
trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first, (17)
Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be
snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus shall we always be together with the Lord." (18) So that,
console one another with these words."
Ah, did you read verse 16? I know that we will be taken off of earth and go to live with Christ in Heaven, but as verse 16 makes clear, it isn't going to be some secret disappearance. When Christ comes to redeem His people from the earth, it means the end of life for all those still living who rejected Christ. They will destroyed by the brightness of His coming. When Christ comes to redeem His people He will be doing so in a loud, glorious, and very visible way. Satan wants people to believe that they'll have some sort of second chance, because he knows human nature, and there many people that would simply wait to "get things right" till they saw all the Christians vanish. Satan knows that isn't going to happen. The next time human eyes see the face of Christ, all decisions will have been made. Those that are deemed righteous will remain righteous, and those that are unjust shall remain so.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:54 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,444,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Ah, did you read verse 16? I know that we will be taken off of earth and go to live with Christ in Heaven, but as verse 16 makes clear, it isn't going to be some secret disappearance. When Christ comes to redeem His people from the earth, it means the end of life for all those still living who rejected Christ. They will destroyed by the brightness of His coming. When Christ comes to redeem His people He will be doing so in a loud, glorious, and very visible way. Satan wants people to believe that they'll have some sort of second chance, because he knows human nature, and there many people that would simply wait to "get things right" till they saw all the Christians vanish. Satan knows that isn't going to happen. The next time human eyes see the face of Christ, all decisions will have been made. Those that are deemed righteous will remain righteous, and those that are unjust shall remain so.
Verse 16 does not say if it will be a secret disappearance or not a secret disappearance.

It is obvious humanity won't be destroyed by His appearance because He has to come back and set up the millennial kingdom and judge the nations as to how they treated His brethren (Matthew 25:31-46).

As to some "second chance" I don't believe anyone has a first chance. God does not save by chance buy by choice, His choice.

Obviously Romans 5:18,19 as well as a hose of other scriptures don't agree with you that people will forever be set in their sinful ways.

Besides all this, you originally asked if we could prove from the Bible if there is a rapture. I did.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:12 PM
 
420 posts, read 1,094,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Ah, did you read verse 16? I know that we will be taken off of earth and go to live with Christ in Heaven, but as verse 16 makes clear, it isn't going to be some secret disappearance. When Christ comes to redeem His people from the earth, it means the end of life for all those still living who rejected Christ. They will destroyed by the brightness of His coming. When Christ comes to redeem His people He will be doing so in a loud, glorious, and very visible way. Satan wants people to believe that they'll have some sort of second chance, because he knows human nature, and there many people that would simply wait to "get things right" till they saw all the Christians vanish. Satan knows that isn't going to happen. The next time human eyes see the face of Christ, all decisions will have been made. Those that are deemed righteous will remain righteous, and those that are unjust shall remain so.
Yes, there will be a rapture according to scripture. However, it will not be as many teach it in our world today. "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP:for the trumpet shall sound(what trumpet?, the last which is the 7th trumpet) and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.(1Corinthians 15:51&52)

Revelation 10:7"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished as he has declared to his servants the prophets" Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the order: seals, trumpets, vials. The 144,000 sealed servants of God are listed after the fifth seal.(see Revelation7:1) Revelation 6:9 says "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held." Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw THE SOULS of them that WERE BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

The rapture will be the pure 144,000 that will be saved through the ministry of the two witnesses, every other professing believer will either fall away because they are not truly saved, will die of other causes, or will be martyred. Prophet Howard mailing address Po box 90633 Milwaukee, Wi 53209 write me with any questions, comments, etc. Also watch my sermons on youtube type either how53225 or Prophet Howard, I can also be found through a google search.
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:30 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,225,039 times
Reputation: 250
re: the rapture ready site posted about earlier (raptureready.com)..while there is some good info there,overall,I find it much too hate-producing twds Obama and the Democrats in general.We need to remember that God standards are not the same as ours,and that hatred is the same as murder in His eyes.It seems so many of those posters have forgotten that.It also appears many of them think that just simply being a republican will get them to heaven...what a scary way to think! ..to think that you can go around and say and think whatever you want,and that God will just give you a pass based on 'well,hey...he/she is a republican!' sry,it just doesn't work like that.We need to be praying for our country and our leaders,and undercutting them and talking bad about them undercuts us as a nation,as and a whole.
Even if most of the ppl there do not like our current administration,they should at least be respectful of it.If they think it is not being respectful twds us,then doing the exact same thing does not make it right.
Overall,what I've seen there is a lot of 'Yes' ppl twds republicans,and very little fairness twds any other party.That's what makes it so hard to find any truth out there any more..all the 'YES' ppl who only point twds their own agenda!
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:01 AM
 
701 posts, read 658,842 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Verse 16 does not say if it will be a secret disappearance or not a secret disappearance.

It is obvious humanity won't be destroyed by His appearance because He has to come back and set up the millennial kingdom and judge the nations as to how they treated His brethren (Matthew 25:31-46).

As to some "second chance" I don't believe anyone has a first chance. God does not save by chance buy by choice, His choice.

Obviously Romans 5:18,19 as well as a hose of other scriptures don't agree with you that people will forever be set in their sinful ways.

Besides all this, you originally asked if we could prove from the Bible if there is a rapture. I did.
"(16) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."

Is there anything about that description that says secret? It seems to make it clear that it will be quite the audible experience, at the very least.

You clearly misconstrued the meaning of the word chance, as I used it. We are all given a chance to make a choice. Chance means "the opportunity to do something" (at least according to the dictionary I use), and we are all given an opportunity to choose Christ. People need to understand that, a time will come when that opportunity will be over, like when someone dies or when Christ appears to gather the redeemed. If people are sitting around waiting for this mass disappearance to occur before they get their life together then they will be in for a rude awakening when Christ does come for His redeemed and that coming destroys every other person on earth who isn't redeemed.

The 1000 years immediately following Christ's 2nd coming, is another very popular misconception, by most of Christianity. the misconception lies in the idea that this 1000 years will be on earth, which it won't be. The 1000 years we will spend in Heaven with Christ. It is at the end of those 1000 years that we will return to earth with Christ, and it is also at this time that Christ will then resurrect the unredeemed (who have all been dead for at least the last 1000 years) to face their judgement. Once the judgement of the wicked is carried out, then Christ will make heaven and earth new and will set up His eternal Kingdom on this new earth.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:56 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 3,923,863 times
Reputation: 465
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Cor. 15:51-57)

Jesus Christ will return at the last trump, and we shall be Changed from mortality to immortality.
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 845,004 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I've given you accurate information. If the fact that the raptured church is in Heaven in Revelation 19:7-8 doesn't cause any lights to come on then nothing else will either.
I dispute your assertion you give accurate information. "Let another's mouth praise you, and not your own." (Proverbs) In Rv 19:7-8 there is no mention of any "rapture," a word appearing nowhere in the Bible. What that passage refers to is the marriage of the lamb. "(Little) lamb" refers to the flesh aspect of Jesus. He is the resurrection and the life. His joining to His wife means their flesh is resurrected to be bodies like unto His body of glory. For some "rapturists" this may be included somewhere in their scenario, though so much lying tradition is mixed in it would be far better to just stick to Bible words for our categories of understanding. We can adjust our understanding of the Bible with other parts of the Bible; but, special un-Biblical words and phrases are a means of deceiving the gullible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The rapture and the Second Advent are two separate events.
There is nothing anywere in the Bible that teaches two 2nd comings. Rapturists claim He is coming FOR the saints in the 1st one. This phrase never occurs in the Bible: "coming FOR the saints." There is no gap beween this imagined unbiblical pair of events. What happened to using the Bible as authority for faith and practice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Tribulation is indeed a seven year time span which separates the two.
The phrase "seven year(s) great tribulation NEVER occurs in the Bible! That doesn't phase some people who are determined to believe many things without any Biblical support whatsoever. WHAT PART OF NEVER DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is the last seven years remaining to the age of Israel. Read the thread I just posted on the Olivet Discourse.
You'd post Scipture quotes saying what you say if you had them. The shell game, misdirecting people to this or that post or site doesn't fool a lot of us. We found out years ago this doctrine of the "rapture" is made up of certain partially scriptural ideas and a lot of Biblically unsupportable deception that blocks the mind from discovering what really is going to happen at the time humanity enters the age of Tabernacles, the Millenium.

We're looking for Jesus coming, not our going; the appearing of the Lord, not the disappearing of the saints, even though many practice disappearing in audiences enabling the shows of apostate churches. They can say we'll leave in the rapture and the devil will take over, but they lie! Instead of leaving, we're taking over. Instead of expecting defeat in or retreat in Rapture, we're expecting complete victory in the anointing.

The same beliefs that caused many 2,000 years ago to reject The Messiah are the same beliefs taught by rapturists today. They say He is coming in wrath and His great sword dripping with the blood of His enemies to set some racially identified people over everybody else. What they don't expect is the same thing He did before, only now through many vessels: stun the world with His love! Healing, liberating, enriching, enlightening with the power of God!

Don't let them take away the value of your life. DipSinsationalism destroys destiny by robbing the Eclessia of her true identity in Christ. As the seed of Abraham the world belongs to us and as the seed of David we have the right to rule it!
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:28 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,842 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
I dispute your assertion you give accurate information. "Let another's mouth praise you, and not your own." (Proverbs) In Rv 19:7-8 there is no mention of any "rapture," a word appearing nowhere in the Bible. What that passage refers to is the marriage of the lamb. "(Little) lamb" refers to the flesh aspect of Jesus. He is the resurrection and the life. His joining to His wife means their flesh is resurrected to be bodies like unto His body of glory. For some "rapturists" this may be included somewhere in their scenario, though so much lying tradition is mixed in it would be far better to just stick to Bible words for our categories of understanding. We can adjust our understanding of the Bible with other parts of the Bible; but, special un-Biblical words and phrases are a means of deceiving the gullible.


There is nothing anywere in the Bible that teaches two 2nd comings. Rapturists claim He is coming FOR the saints in the 1st one. This phrase never occurs in the Bible: "coming FOR the saints." There is no gap beween this imagined unbiblical pair of events. What happened to using the Bible as authority for faith and practice?


The phrase "seven year(s) great tribulation NEVER occurs in the Bible! That doesn't phase some people who are determined to believe many things without any Biblical support whatsoever. WHAT PART OF NEVER DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!


You'd post Scipture quotes saying what you say if you had them. The shell game, misdirecting people to this or that post or site doesn't fool a lot of us. We found out years ago this doctrine of the "rapture" is made up of certain partially scriptural ideas and a lot of Biblically unsupportable deception that blocks the mind from discovering what really is going to happen at the time humanity enters the age of Tabernacles, the Millenium.

We're looking for Jesus coming, not our going; the appearing of the Lord, not the disappearing of the saints, even though many practice disappearing in audiences enabling the shows of apostate churches. They can say we'll leave in the rapture and the devil will take over, but they lie! Instead of leaving, we're taking over. Instead of expecting defeat in or retreat in Rapture, we're expecting complete victory in the anointing.

The same beliefs that caused many 2,000 years ago to reject The Messiah are the same beliefs taught by rapturists today. They say He is coming in wrath and His great sword dripping with the blood of His enemies to set some racially identified people over everybody else. What they don't expect is the same thing He did before, only now through many vessels: stun the world with His love! Healing, liberating, enriching, enlightening with the power of God!

Don't let them take away the value of your life. DipSinsationalism destroys destiny by robbing the Eclessia of her true identity in Christ. As the seed of Abraham the world belongs to us and as the seed of David we have the right to rule it!
Have to agree with a lot of that James, however, the Bible does say that we will be leaving this planet to spend the millennium in Heaven with Christ. It is at the end of the 1000 years that we return to earth with Christ and the New Jerusalem.
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:48 AM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,670,237 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
I dispute your assertion you give accurate information. "Let another's mouth praise you, and not your own." (Proverbs) In Rv 19:7-8 there is no mention of any "rapture," a word appearing nowhere in the Bible. What that passage refers to is the marriage of the lamb. "(Little) lamb" refers to the flesh aspect of Jesus. He is the resurrection and the life. His joining to His wife means their flesh is resurrected to be bodies like unto His body of glory. For some "rapturists" this may be included somewhere in their scenario, though so much lying tradition is mixed in it would be far better to just stick to Bible words for our categories of understanding. We can adjust our understanding of the Bible with other parts of the Bible; but, special un-Biblical words and phrases are a means of deceiving the gullible.


There is nothing anywere in the Bible that teaches two 2nd comings. Rapturists claim He is coming FOR the saints in the 1st one. This phrase never occurs in the Bible: "coming FOR the saints." There is no gap beween this imagined unbiblical pair of events. What happened to using the Bible as authority for faith and practice?



The phrase "seven year(s) great tribulation NEVER occurs in the Bible! That doesn't phase some people who are determined to believe many things without any Biblical support whatsoever. WHAT PART OF NEVER DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!


You'd post Scipture quotes saying what you say if you had them. The shell game, misdirecting people to this or that post or site doesn't fool a lot of us. We found out years ago this doctrine of the "rapture" is made up of certain partially scriptural ideas and a lot of Biblically unsupportable deception that blocks the mind from discovering what really is going to happen at the time humanity enters the age of Tabernacles, the Millenium.

We're looking for Jesus coming, not our going; the appearing of the Lord, not the disappearing of the saints, even though many practice disappearing in audiences enabling the shows of apostate churches. They can say we'll leave in the rapture and the devil will take over, but they lie! Instead of leaving, we're taking over. Instead of expecting defeat in or retreat in Rapture, we're expecting complete victory in the anointing.

The same beliefs that caused many 2,000 years ago to reject The Messiah are the same beliefs taught by rapturists today. They say He is coming in wrath and His great sword dripping with the blood of His enemies to set some racially identified people over everybody else. What they don't expect is the same thing He did before, only now through many vessels: stun the world with His love! Healing, liberating, enriching, enlightening with the power of God!

Don't let them take away the value of your life. DipSinsationalism destroys destiny by robbing the Eclessia of her true identity in Christ. As the seed of Abraham the world belongs to us and as the seed of David we have the right to rule it!

Regarding the pre-tribulational rapture, dispensations, and the Tribulation, those who are interested in learning something about them may refer to my threads. Those who aren't interested need not bother.

Regarding the Pre-Tribulational Rapture


Dispensations In The Bible


Understanding the Olivet Discourse


The following site gives detailed and accurate information conerning the doctrine of the pre-tribulational rapture of the church.

The Rapture of the Church


And this link should also be of interest to those who wish to learn more about the pre-tribulational rapture.

Rapture Ready - Rapture resource for the end times
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,395,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Have to agree with a lot of that James, however, the Bible does say that we will be leaving this planet to spend the millennium in Heaven with Christ. It is at the end of the 1000 years that we return to earth with Christ and the New Jerusalem.
What happens on earth during that 1000 years.... that's 25 generations passing...whats the purpose of the 1000 years in your opinion?
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