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Old 04-20-2010, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
Hi Katzpur, yes you are correct. I do not believe that Jesus is the same person as God but I do believe that he is Divine if that makes sense?
Yes, it makes sense, because that's what I believe. You also said that Jesus is second in command. I also believe that.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God the Holy Spirit has many titles in both the Old and New Testaments.

He is known as...

The Holy Spirit; 2 Cor. 13:14

Spirit of Holiness; Rom. 1:4

Spirit of Life; Rom. 8:2

Spirit of Knowledge; Isa. 11:2

Spirit of Truth; John 14:17

Spirit of God and ''of our God''; Gen. 1:2; Matt. 3:16; 1 Cor. 6:11

Spirit of your Father; Matt. 10:20

Spirit of Christ and ''of Jesus Christ; Rom.8:9; Phil. 1:19

Spirit of His Son; Gal. 4:6

Spirit of the Lord; Acts 5:9

These various titles do not mean that He is merely a divine attribute of God. They are simply titles that relate Him in different ways as per the specifics of the titles.

The Holy Spirit is referred to as 'He', 'Him', and 'His'. John 14:16, 26.

In 2 Cor 13:14 all three members of the Trinity are presented. 'The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

The Holy Spirit can perform as Christ performed.

John 14:16 ''And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17) that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.
Thanks, Mike, but I wasn't thinking in terms of God's names and titles. I'm wondering, in what way the Father and the Holy Ghost differ if they are both spirits. Are the the same spirit or two distinct spirits? I'm actually wondering what need there is for the Holy Ghost. It seems to me that God the Father could easily fulfill every role the Holy Ghost has. So I'm wondering about the need for the Holy Ghost.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:51 AM
 
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While i believe in God The Father, His Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit of God, i cannot believe in the trinity as the creed states.

The creed states they are coequal, but that goes against scripture, for the scripture says:

Joh 14:28 -Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. Either the creed is wrong or the scripture is, i will side with scripture

i have asked before and yet to get an answer, how does the creed line up with scripture????
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,402,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Thanks, Mike, but I wasn't thinking in terms of God's names and titles. I'm wondering, in what way the Father and the Holy Ghost differ if they are both spirits. Are the the same spirit or two distinct spirits? I'm actually wondering what need there is for the Holy Ghost. It seems to me that God the Father could easily fulfill every role the Holy Ghost has. So I'm wondering about the need for the Holy Ghost.
I second this question....

If God the father is spirit and God the holy spirit is spirit then are there two spirits or one? and if there is one collective spirit know as God the father... what is the holy spirit?

Seems like splitting up an apple and calling it two apples yet the same apple... Which is a deception because it is two 1/2 apples that are the same apple.. just like it is the same spirit of God that is both the holy spirit and God the father....

I am so confused now... This is why I reject the trinity...it gives me a headache to try to understand it from a human viewpoint.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:55 AM
 
20,326 posts, read 15,692,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Thanks, Mike, but I wasn't thinking in terms of God's names and titles. I'm wondering, in what way the Father and the Holy Ghost differ if they are both spirits. Are the the same spirit or two distinct spirits? I'm actually wondering what need there is for the Holy Ghost. It seems to me that God the Father could easily fulfill every role the Holy Ghost has. So I'm wondering about the need for the Holy Ghost.
This goes back to the fact that God is three separate individuals each of whom is God, and together are God. One God.

All three members of the Godhead are Holy and all three are Spirit. The title Holy Spirit is simply one of the designations for the third Person of the Trinity. Neither God the Father or God the Son--Jesus Christ are ever referred to by that title.

In their nature, their essence, each of the three members of the Trinity are co-equal and co-eternal with each other. It is only with regard to their plan of salvation that they assume different roles.

The first Person of the Trinity is the author of the plan and therefore the authority and is known as the Father.

The Second Person of the Trinity agreed to come into the world as a member of the human race and pay for the sins of humanity. He willingly became obedient to the Father and is known as the Son of God.

The third Person of the Trinity agreed to do certain things related to the plan of salvation. Among other things, He agreed to reveal the plan of salvation to man. He agreed to be the power in the life of the believer.

God the Holy Spirit has a number of ministries.

In every dispensation...

1) Common grace in which the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel understandable to the hearer of the Gospel. The Gospel is spiritual phenomenon and can't be understood by the spiritually dead unbeliever, and so the Holy Spirit takes up the slack and acts as a human spirit so that the Gospel may be perspicacious tto that person.

2) Regeneration or the new birth, by which means we are made spiritually alive. John 3:3-7; Tit. 3:5.

In the church-age...

3) The baptism of the Spirit by which means the believer is placed into union with Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 12:13; 1 Pet. 2:9

4) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit which makes the body of the believer a temple for the indwelling of Jesus Christ as the Shekinah glory and which is the basis for the believers function in the Christian life. 1 Cor. 6:19,20

5) The sealing of the Holy Spirit which is a guarantee of the security of the Royal Family during the church-age which is the intensified stage of the angelic conflict. Eph. 1:13; Eph. 4:30

6) The Holy Spirit sovereignly gives to each church-age believer at least one spiritual gift. 1 Cor. 12:4-11; Eph. 4:11

7) The Filling of the Holy Spirit which is a separate ministry from the indwelling of the Spirit. The filling of the Spirit is the only temporary ministry of the Holy Spirit. Is is lost whenever a sin is committed and restoration of the filling of the Spirit is dependent on the use of the principle of 1 John 1:9 in which the believers sins are simply named to God the Father so that the believer can be restored to the status of spirituality. At any given moment, a believer is either carnal as a result of having commited a sin, and therefore under the control of his old sin nature, or he is spiritual at the moment he names the sin to God, and under the control of the Holy Spirit--filled with the Spirit. Eph. 5:18.

Those are things which God the Holy Spirit agreed to do in relation to God's plan of salvation for man.


God the Father planned salvation: Isa. 14:27; John 4:34; 5:17; 12:44; 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 3:11.

God the Son executed salvation: John 4:34; 5:17; Heb.10:7

God the Holy Spirit reveals salvation: John 16:8-11.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Have you ever heard of the Tri-state of water?...it can be a gas, liquid and solid all at the same instance...if i remember my chemestry, it is called the zero point...
This is an excellent visual - hope it helps our OP!

Water in different forms: liquid, solid or gas

God in different forms: Father, son and holy spirit
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:56 PM
 
3,582 posts, read 459,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
This is an excellent visual - hope it helps our OP!

Water in different forms: liquid, solid or gas

God in different forms: Father, son and holy spirit
To me that analogy does not explain the relationship between a supposed trinity, especially when they are all now Spirit. When a water is liquid, it is not at the same time gas or solid -- it is only in one state at one time.

God is Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Spirit and now Jesus who was in the flesh is Spirit.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
God is Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Spirit and now Jesus who was in the flesh is Spirit.
Why do you think Jesus is now spirit? He ascended into Heaven in bodily form, as a glorified, immortal, resurrected being. When do you believe He got rid of His body?
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,289 posts, read 20,939,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
All three members of the Godhead are Holy and all three are Spirit.
I asked Meerkat this, but I'll ask you too... When do you believe Jesus got rid of the body of flesh and bones He had after His resurrection, with which He ascended into Heaven and with which He said He would return to Earth? I have always been of the impression that even Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ now has a physical body -- although no longer a mortal one. Are you saying that if you were to go to Heaven right now, you would not be in the presence of a Being you could see and touch? Or did I misunderstand you? I mean, I believe that they are all spirit, too. But a spirit is a life force which can either inhabit a body or not. In my opinion, a spirit can either exist within or outside of a body.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,637,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBMallory View Post
Can someone please, please try and legitimately explain how your jesus can also be his own father? This whole "father, son and holy spirit" as one being Moderator cut: insulting comments are deleted
Jesus is NOT the Father. The Father is Spirit - His Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the very BEING of the Father Himself. Jesus has His Father's Being inside of Him.

Think of it from the earthly example. A man gives of his being (the flesh) to his child such that the child has his father (in him via his fathers flesh). The same is True of God but via the Spirit (not the flesh).

Let's put it this way:

In the beginning was the Rib, and the Rib was with Adam and the Rib was Adam.

See the Rib is Eve. Eve has Adam's flesh.

Now consider John 1:1 considering the Word of God (which is Jesus):

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
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