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Old 04-20-2010, 01:56 PM
 
3,582 posts, read 460,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
In the back of my mind I wonder about all those who unknowingly follow the law (the two commands that is)... if the purpose is to cause men to love one another do you have to believe in Christ in order to live life abundantly if you already love your fellow man?

And how does punishing the spirit in a spirit-life useful when it was the flesh that needed taming?

I think I am missing some key puzzle piece in understanding the process. Maybe I'm not asking the right questions!
Kat

What I believe is that there is a separation between the flesh (not the blood and bones but the carnal, lustful, jealous, envious nature) and our spirit, how I think about it is our spirit is a seed that is planted in everyone and it needs to be germinated by the Holy Spirit and grows by overcoming following the law of love God and love your neighbour, and the rebirth is not of our will but of Gods will, and it is through Christ, we are all accountable for our actions, and reap what we sow.

None of our deeds saves us, but our bad deeds do condemn us because we are not following the spiritual law.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:04 PM
 
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If God is All in all individuals now, then this is as good as it gets and what a sorry sorry future we have to look forward to if this is all there is!
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:30 PM
 
3,582 posts, read 460,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If God is All in all individuals now, then this is as good as it gets and what a sorry sorry future we have to look forward to if this is all there is!
Yes ....
1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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Right, meerkat2.

If there is no resurrection of the dead we have no hope. But why would that be if God is All in all now? Why is that such a horrible thing for God to be all in all but if there is no resurrection we are hopeless and miserable?
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Kat

What I believe is that there is a separation between the flesh (not the blood and bones but the carnal, lustful, jealous, envious nature) and our spirit, how I think about it is our spirit is a seed that is planted in everyone and it needs to be germinated by the Holy Spirit and grows by overcoming following the law of love God and love your neighbour, and the rebirth is not of our will but of Gods will, and it is through Christ, we are all accountable for our actions, and reap what we sow.

None of our deeds saves us, but our bad deeds do condemn us because we are not following the spiritual law.
I am simply trying to say that the carnal is the flesh.... not separate. The flesh and bones and nerves are what react to stimuli. A man sees a pretty woman and he gets a rush or feeling... she looks nice. This is simply physical reaction to stimuli. The nerves in the body produce the reaction. If, however, you have trained your physical body not to react beyond that "she looks nice" feeling then you are not sinning and you are using the spirit to temper your reactions rather than going with the feeling you have and bringing forth lust.

So I don't see how you can separate the body from the carnal nature... IMO the carnal nature is the bundle of nerves and systems we call the body.

Even the command to love one another takes a good amount of stifling the brain's automatic ego reaction.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If God is All in all individuals now, then this is as good as it gets and what a sorry sorry future we have to look forward to if this is all there is!
If God is all in all then there is a possiblity that by spreading the TRUE gospel, if you know the one I mean, humans can change their behavior to conform to God being all in all. But can we say that because humans have been unable to see the TRUE gospel that God can't be all in all?

Why is God being all in all synonymous with everyone being perfect?
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Yes ....
1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
The problem with your interpretation, IMO, is that this is all talking about the resurrection. If Christ did not resurrect and thus made it possible for those who die to also resurrect then those people they are worried about have no hope... and if there is only hope then they are all following a false gospel (men most miserable). Paul is trying to reassure them, not prove that there is hope beyond a person's lifetime. During this period of time, Jesus had died but not returned bringing salvation. Therefore, they were getting anxious about the return of Christ so that they could see their salvation and not simply hope for it.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,295,475 times
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Not only were they getting anxious, but they were told that it already happened, or NEVER will!
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