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Old 04-21-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,285,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Any reigning going on in God's universe shows there is insubbordination. If Christ reigns eternally then there is eternal insubbordination.
Jesus Christ is God the Son.
Christ hands over the kingdom to the Father, then GOD is all in all, just exactly as Christ is all in all.

Quote:
Colossians 3:11 has Christ being all in all the believers:
That's who God is all in all with, those in the New Jerusalem. And since you avoided a direct question from me elsewhere, I will ask you again....

Why are there sinners in the New Heavens and Earth, where you purportedly ascribe complete reconciliation of the entire race of mankind past, present and future wicked and righteous, and what is the second death that they are destined to?

Until you can answer this question in your viewpoint, your viewpoint is rendered in error.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
So, all dogs go to hell? That would be so sad.
I wish the scripture were all so easy to see through. Of course dogs aren't evil and sitting outside in flames.

It can get kind of silly sometimes.

I didn't even used to ask questions when I was younger, so that verse just would have went through one ear and out the other. But I read it not too long ago, and actually asked the question, no kidding, why are dogs so evil? I am not a big dog lover, so it didn't bother me all that much at first, but made me think for a second or two. If it had said, "cats were outside," I might have paid attention.

Anyway, I finally went to look up why dogs were supposed to be so evil and found out how much dogs were looked down upon by people back in the day.

(I used to look down upon them myself, but I recently got one for my son and can't seem to kick the stinky, shedding, licking, critter outta my home. They grow on you.)
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:04 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 452,553 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Jesus Christ is God the Son.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God And God is the Father of Jesus Christ, when we are told that Jesus is subject (obedient to) HIS Father and his Father is All in All it does not say the Christ is all in all --- to me it seems you are adding to those scriptures with philosophy and interpretations (trinity)
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:54 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,734 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I wish the scripture were all so easy to see through. Of course dogs aren't evil and sitting outside in flames.

It can get kind of silly sometimes.

I didn't even used to ask questions when I was younger, so that verse just would have went through one ear and out the other. But I read it not too long ago, and actually asked the question, no kidding, why are dogs so evil? I am not a big dog lover, so it didn't bother me all that much at first, but made me think for a second or two. If it had said, "cats were outside," I might have paid attention.

Anyway, I finally went to look up why dogs were supposed to be so evil and found out how much dogs were looked down upon by people back in the day.

(I used to look down upon them myself, but I recently got one for my son and can't seem to kick the stinky, shedding, licking, critter outta my home. They grow on you.)
I'm a cat person more than a dog person, too. I hope ETers will see from our comments, that if you say you take the bible completely literally, you can't pick and choose what's literal. They say the lake of fire is literal, but the lamb and many other words in Revelation are not. I would venture to say they don't think "dogs" is literal here, either.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:03 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,414,155 times
Reputation: 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I wish the scripture were all so easy to see through. Of course dogs aren't evil and sitting outside in flames.

It can get kind of silly sometimes.

I didn't even used to ask questions when I was younger, so that verse just would have went through one ear and out the other. But I read it not too long ago, and actually asked the question, no kidding, why are dogs so evil? I am not a big dog lover, so it didn't bother me all that much at first, but made me think for a second or two. If it had said, "cats were outside," I might have paid attention.

Anyway, I finally went to look up why dogs were supposed to be so evil and found out how much dogs were looked down upon by people back in the day.

(I used to look down upon them myself, but I recently got one for my son and can't seem to kick the stinky, shedding, licking, critter outta my home. They grow on you.)
I don't think Revelation 22:15...DOGS, is referring to ordinary dogs (pets), I love mine very much and treat him like one of the family.

Foxes and wolves also belong to the canine (dogs) family and very, very SLY...symbolic
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post


I'm a cat person more than a dog person, too. I hope ETers will see from our comments, that if you say you take the bible completely literally, you can't pick and choose what's literal. They say the lake of fire is literal, but the lamb and many other words in Revelation are not. I would venture to say they don't think "dogs" is literal here, either.
Yep....the REVELATION is VERY symbolic.

(I just posted to ans57 on the thread "Explain Away" something about Solomon and the 666. There is a verse that talks about those that worship the beast and they have no rest DAY OR NIGHT)

Anyway, I was thinking yesterday that WORSHIP is in the present tense. It does not say those that WORSHIPED the Beast. And there is also DAY AND NIGHT in that verse. HOW is that possible, if this is THE END OF ALL THINGS? How do you pick and choose what is literal and what is symbolic in Revelation. People do the darnedest things with that book. More so with that book than ANY other book in the BIBLE. They don't just pick and choose what VERSE is literal or symbolic, but they pick and choose sentences and even words in those verses out and mix it all up into literal and symbolic nonsense.

Anyway, if it is in present tense, then why in the world would people still be WORSHIPING the BEAST who had tricked them? They are all BURNING ALIVE while STILL WORSHIPING HIM?????? Uh, huh.

And I already know the connection to Sodom and Gomorrah when it says "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever." And we all know it has nothing to do with people literally swimming around in some fire-pool forever.

That verse makes absolutely NO SENSE if taken literally. Honestly, it doesn't. I have tried. And some of the commentary I read on this is nonsense, in my most humble opinion.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
I'm not a preterist nor trinitarian.

I believe the millennium is yet to come.

I don't believe Christ is "God" in the sense that He is the invisible God Who fills heaven and earth. Yet I don't believe Christ is just a man either even though the Scriptures call Him a man. They also say He is "God." But we must ask ourselves, "in what sense does He carry the title "God"?

But this thread is about eternity and for ever and ever and not trinity.

Well, I started this thread, so it is bound to go off topic, if you notice what I said on page 4.

I really don't mind being off topic on my own thread, so much, as long as we are getting somewhere and not just repeating ourselves. If I can understand where everyone is coming from, it will help me out a bit, here.

I am a partial preterist at the moment, I don't know what to think about the trinity, yet, and I lean towards Universalism.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:11 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,734 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Yep....the REVELATION is VERY symbolic.

(I just posted to ans57 on the thread "Explain Away" something about Solomon and the 666. There is a verse that talks about those that worship the beast and they have no rest DAY OR NIGHT)

Anyway, I was thinking yesterday that WORSHIP is in the present tense. It does not say those that WORSHIPED the Beast. And there is also DAY AND NIGHT in that verse. HOW is that possible, if this is THE END OF ALL THINGS? How do you pick and choose what is literal and what is symbolic in Revelation. People do the darnedest things with that book. More so with that book than ANY other book in the BIBLE. They don't just pick and choose what VERSE is literal or symbolic, but they pick and choose sentences and even words in those verses out and mix it all up into literal and symbolic nonsense.

Anyway, if it is in present tense, then why in the world would people still be WORSHIPING the BEAST who had tricked them? They are all BURNING ALIVE while STILL WORSHIPING HIM?????? Uh, huh.

And I already know the connection to Sodom and Gomorrah when it says "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever." And we all know it has nothing to do with people literally swimming around in some fire-pool forever.

That verse makes absolutely NO SENSE if taken literally. Honestly, it doesn't. I have tried. And some of the commentary I read on this is nonsense, in my most humble opinion.
Very good points! I never thought about the part that says "worship" the beast instead of "worshipped."
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
I don't think Revelation 22:15...DOGS, is referring to ordinary dogs (pets), I love mine very much and treat him like one of the family.

Foxes and wolves also belong to the canine (dogs) family and very, very SLY...symbolic
Nope, not ordinary dogs.
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Old 04-22-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Jesus Christ is God the Son.
Christ hands over the kingdom to the Father, then GOD is all in all, just exactly as Christ is all in all.



That's who God is all in all with, those in the New Jerusalem. And since you avoided a direct question from me elsewhere, I will ask you again....

Why are there sinners in the New Heavens and Earth, where you purportedly ascribe complete reconciliation of the entire race of mankind past, present and future wicked and righteous, and what is the second death that they are destined to?

Until you can answer this question in your viewpoint, your viewpoint is rendered in error.

I don't know if the above question from sciotamicks has been answered on another thread, but it hasn't been clearly answered on this one, that I am aware of.

Does someone have a clear reply as to why sciotamicks believes Universalists say there are sinners in the New Heaven and Earth?
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