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Old 04-19-2010, 11:40 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 457,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
There are a WHOLE lot of verses that just can't be tied together very well when you claim a denomination as the "be all, end all" of your studies.

It is very frustrating when you go out "on your own", though. It's kind of scary, actually. At least, at first.





Thanks, sparrow. I was wondering where you were. I haven't seen you post much lately. I guess these boards can wear you down after a while.

(and I think I always go off topic somehow. Is it alright to do that on your own thread?)
Maybe I should take my comments to another thread --- sorry for going off topic
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:59 PM
 
Location: PA
45 posts, read 39,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Anyway, what happened to the thousand-year reign? And then after that thousand year reign, what happens next?

And by the way, it is very strange that so many people talk about how this planet is supposed to be nuked or a huge war is supposed to happen or a comet is supposed to hit BEFORE Jesus has his reign. How is He supposed to reign on an uninhabitable planet?

And after that reign we are supposed to see the BIG war when Satan is loosed for a season.

There are more ages to come.

Jesus is going to finally, in the VERY end, turn EVERYTHING over to His Father.

I Corinthian 15:28 The Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put everything under him.
After the 1000 year reign, from what I've been taught, JMO, Satan is loosed to tempt those that were here during the millennium. Satan will be defeated again, duh...lol, and cast into Hell for eternity.

The idea that the world is going to be nuked or destroyed or whatever I don't believe. You're right, what world would there be here for Christ to reign over and what people would there be for Him to resurrect? There will be an increase in wars, famine, "worldly" signs, etc., but where people come up with the idea that the world will end before the millennium I'll never know. After the seven year tribulation, Christ will come and cast out Satan and judge everyone and the believers (saved) will be here for the millennium.

That's what I get out of everything, anyway. I'm still researching and learning, learning!
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Maybe I should take my comments to another thread --- sorry for going off topic
My problem is that I ALWAYS end up going off topic because my thoughts lead me from one dot to the next and I start seeing how all the dots connect eventually, when others might not.

I really don't care where this thread goes as long as I get some answers.

(and as long as we don't end up talking about flowers or something like that, although, I do like flowers, and God made flowers, and there are lots of pretty colors, so He must like pink, and that's not very masculine, so......AHHHHH!!!! See what I mean!)

Anyway, my husband is home tonight for his day off tomorrow, so I won't be on tonight or tomorrow, but I will be checking this thread.

(If we can understand how "eternal" works and connect it to eschatology, that would be great. I was wondering how UR brings all the prophecies together, and it does make a difference if the "eons" and "ages" and "everlastings" were translated inconsistently.)

Last edited by herefornow; 04-20-2010 at 12:12 AM..
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:31 AM
 
3,581 posts, read 457,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
My problem is that I ALWAYS end up going off topic because my thoughts lead me from one dot to the next and I start seeing how all the dots connect eventually, when others might not.

I really don't care where this thread goes as long as I get some answers.

(and as long as we don't end up talking about flowers or something like that, although, I do like flowers, and God made flowers, and there are lots of pretty colors, so He must like pink, and that's not very masculine, so......AHHHHH!!!! See what I mean!)

Anyway, my husband is home tonight for his day off tomorrow, so I won't be on tonight or tomorrow, but I will be checking this thread.

(If we can understand how "eternal" works and connect it to eschatology, that would be great. I was wondering how UR brings all the prophecies together, and it does make a difference if the "eons" and "ages" and "everlastings" were translated inconsistently.)
Herefornow,

ok, I will continue rambling here, as long as someone talks back, that is.

That is exactly how I feel, one question leads to 2 others then to more - the whole is made up of the parts and if you have one part interpreted wrong - it will affect other things as well.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,963 times
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Zech 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


PLEASE read the full post. Sorry to ramble, but it does mean a lot to me.

(and, we have to understand, even the guys at the top that do write commentaries argue amongst themselves about what is going on. Martin Luther said of Zechariah 14, “Here, in this chapter, I give up. For I am not sure what the prophet is talking about.)

Lord just means ruler, like lord of the manor. And if He is just ruling over the earth, which is what Zechariah was talking about, what about the rest of the Universe.

Who is ruling what and when? Zechariah was talking about something specific, in my opinion, not the END.

(sorry to get sidetracked, but the verse in Zechariah I just read, "their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths," just reminded me of some terrible dreams that I have been having.)

Anyhow, this is what the rest of Zechariah says.

Then the SURVIVORS from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD [d] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

THE ABOVE DOES NOT SOUND LIKE THE END OF ALL THINGS, AT ALL, in my humble opinion.

(and NOW I am off to bed. Husband is getting cranky. )

Last edited by herefornow; 04-20-2010 at 01:58 AM..
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:04 AM
 
Location: PA
45 posts, read 39,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Herefornow,

ok, I will continue rambling here, as long as someone talks back, that is.

That is exactly how I feel, one question leads to 2 others then to more - the whole is made up of the parts and if you have one part interpreted wrong - it will affect other things as well.
Man, I totally agree! I'm going from one topic to another, flipping from one page to another and on and on. Well, here's my take on things:

Eternity's meaning needs to be defined by the context. In other words, when speaking of God, it means without beginning or end. When speaking of life after death, it means with no end. I also looked up the dictionary definition of eternity and it had more than one definition as well.

In reference to eschatology, I believe that believers will be brought to the "new Heaven" for eternity (Revelation 21:1 - 8), and the non-believers will be in Hell for eternity (Revelation 20:11-15).....never ending. (Revelation 21-22)
Also see Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:7-15 I'm sorry, I know some of those overlap, but, like I said, I'm doing a lot of "flipping" through several books, not just the Bible.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,398,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
Man, I totally agree! I'm going from one topic to another, flipping from one page to another and on and on. Well, here's my take on things:

Eternity's meaning needs to be defined by the context. In other words, when speaking of God, it means without beginning or end. When speaking of life after death, it means with no end. I also looked up the dictionary definition of eternity and it had more than one definition as well.

In reference to eschatology, I believe that believers will be brought to the "new Heaven" for eternity (Revelation 21:1 - 8), and the non-believers will be in Hell for eternity (Revelation 20:11-15).....never ending. (Revelation 21-22)
Also see Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:7-15 I'm sorry, I know some of those overlap, but, like I said, I'm doing a lot of "flipping" through several books, not just the Bible.
Welcome to City-data!

I have a couple questions for you to ponder about this eternity thing:
1. If eternal life and judgment death (non-believers hell) use of eternal means without end yet has a beginning, why don't they have the same point of beginning? Eternal life can start when you accept Christ.. right? But does hell start the moment you reject him?

2. If a punishment is never ending can it rightly be punishment? Isn't punishment for correction? Can never ending punishment ever lead to correction?
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:03 AM
 
3,581 posts, read 457,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
Man, I totally agree! I'm going from one topic to another, flipping from one page to another and on and on. Well, here's my take on things:

Eternity's meaning needs to be defined by the context. In other words, when speaking of God, it means without beginning or end. When speaking of life after death, it means with no end. I also looked up the dictionary definition of eternity and it had more than one definition as well.

In reference to eschatology, I believe that believers will be brought to the "new Heaven" for eternity (Revelation 21:1 - 8), and the non-believers will be in Hell for eternity (Revelation 20:11-15).....never ending. (Revelation 21-22)
Also see Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:7-15 I'm sorry, I know some of those overlap, but, like I said, I'm doing a lot of "flipping" through several books, not just the Bible.
Hi bellamamma,

Welcome to city data
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
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herefornow,

The passage in Zech is post Parousia/Second Coming, and is precisely what we do now, we celebrate the Feats of Tabernacles (Jesus) in liturgical worship at church and amongst our study, here, at City Data.

Hope that helped
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,710,937 times
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Quote:
I do know I heard somewhere that Plato, in his writings, used eternity (or aionios, I guess) to mean something other than "no beginning and no ending." That kind of info is helpful.
this is true, and traditionalists use him as their authority

see for example this:

On the Greek words for Eternity and Eternal

Darby uses Plato as his highest authority, yet says elsewhere:

Quote:
...but the Fathers are the expression, not of orthodox truth, but of a mass of mentalefforts on divine subjects, of heavings to and for on subjects which escaped their grasp; of the efforts, too, of minds, for the most part seriously corrupted by Platonic philosophy...
As valid as his objections appear, also read this:

Greek EIS TON AIOoNA - what does it mean?

I copy from my own article that I attached here:

This is Plato’s use of aiõn:

And when the Father that engendered it perceived it in motion and alive, a
thing of joy to the eternal gods (aidiõn theõn), He too rejoiced; and being well pleased He designed to make it resemble its Model still more closely. Accordingly, seeing that that Model is an eternal Living Creature (zõon aidion on), He set about making this Universe, so far as He could, of a like kind. But inasmuch as the nature of the Living Creature was æonian, this quality it was impossible to attach in its entirety to what is generated; wherefore He planned to make a movable image of Eternity (aiõnos), and, as He set in order the Heaven, of that Eternity (aiõnos) which abides in unity He made an æonian image, moving according to number, even that which we have named Time (chronos). (Plato, Timaeus 37c, d)

Time, then, came into existence along with the Heaven, to the end that having been generated together they might also be dissolved together, if ever a dissolution of them should take place; and it was made after the pattern of the Eternal (diaiõnias) Nature, to the end that it might be as like thereto as possible; for whereas the pattern is existent through all eternity (panta aiõna), the copy, on the other hand, is through all time, continually having existed, existing, and being about to exist. (Plato, Timaeus 38)

When speaking about the gods, Plato employs the Greek word aidios (everlasting, eternal), in one sentence he seems to use aiõnios synonymous, though what he wants to express I cannot conceive. He uses aiõn in a very abstract sense, time he calls an æonian image of that “eternity”, later he says “time, then, came into existence along with the Heaven”, this æonian image at least had a beginning; Plato continues to say “that having been generated together they might also be dissolved together”. Now if time, the æonian image of Plato’s abstract æon, came into existence with the heaven and might dissolve together with the heaven, this image cannot be eternal for it had a definite beginning; and if it will dissolve and cease with the dissolution of the heaven which Plato seems to consider being possible, it cannot be everlasting or endless.

So far my understanding
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