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Old 04-20-2010, 03:12 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,543,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
I ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY believe the Bible and am ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY insulted that you would state otherwise. I don't care what Greek translation is. The Bible is in English, I speak English, I have the Holy Spirit to guide me in understanding what is being said by God in the Bible.

Why would you believe otherwise that someone does not go to Hell for eternity for not believing in God when it states that clearly IN THE BILBLE? In other words, do YOU not believe the Bible? It's a two-way street there, huh?

Not trying to be rude, JMO.
Give me one verse in the whole bible that specificaly says someone goes to hell for eternity for not believing Christ died for them.

Your bible may be in English but it is a poor translation. If the Holy Spirit really was guiding you it would not guide you into a false path like "eternal torment."
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Eusebius, there is no other eon after "the Age to Come"...that age is endless..
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Eusebius, there is no other eon after "the Age to Come"...that age is endless..
Wrong.

The age to come is the millennial age and the age after that is the new earth age.
The Bible says all the ages end, so there can't be any critter called an "eternal age."

Besides, an "endless age" is a contradiction in terms.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Wrong.

The age to come is the millennial age and the age after that is the new earth age.
Prove that the Milenium is the age to come. Please provide the exegesis of the scripture.

Quote:
The Bible says all the ages end, so there can't be any critter called an "eternal age."
You are very wrong. Here is a couple:

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 22 is under the NH and E, where sin still abounds Rev 21:8

Dan 7:14,27 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Dan 7:14,27 is post "millenium" and GWTJ
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,405,720 times
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I know forever doesn't mean forever, but can somebody find me a verse that uses forever and ever that links to a future time where that supposed "forever and ever" changed?

The only one that comes to mind is the one about Sodom and gommorah. (the smoke forever and ever, which obviusly doesn't mean that as most of us know.)

(I'm supposed to be off the forum today, but I'm waiting with my husband at the DMV so I'm typing this on my phone, which is alittle difficult.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Prove that the Milenium is the age to come. Please provide the exegesis of the scripture.
Prove that the age to come is not the Millennium.
Please provide the exegesis of the scripture.



Quote:
No they don't. Here is a couple:

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 22 is under the NH and E, where sin still abounds Rev 21:8
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Well, of course the Bible does in fact say all the eons end:

1Cor 10:11 Now all this befalls them typically. Yet it was written for our admonition, to whom the consummations of the eons have attained."

Heb 9:26 since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest."

Christ came so that when the eons end sin would be repudiated.

Daniel 7:14 which you quote above does not disprove the eons end. It just proves that "His dominion is an eonian dominion" or a dominion pertaining to the eons, and as such will not pass away during the eons, and that His kingdom won't be confined to just Israel:

Dan 7:14 to Him is granted jurisdiction and esteem and a kingdom, and all the peoples and leagues and language-groups shall serve Him; His jurisdiction, as an eonian jurisdiction, will not pass away, and His kingdom shall not be confined."
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:47 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,543,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I know forever doesn't mean forever, but can somebody find me a verse that uses forever and ever that links to a future time where that supposed "forever and ever" changed?

The only one that comes to mind is the one about Sodom and gommorah. (the smoke forever and ever, which obviusly doesn't mean that as most of us know.)

(I'm supposed to be off the forum today, but I'm waiting with my husband at the DMV so I'm typing this on my phone, which is alittle difficult.
Christ reigns "for ever and ever" yet the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 15 that Christ reigns until all are subject. So He can't reign for ever and ever.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:49 PM
 
Location: PA
45 posts, read 40,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Give me one verse in the whole bible that specificaly says someone goes to hell for eternity for not believing Christ died for them.

Your bible may be in English but it is a poor translation. If the Holy Spirit really was guiding you it would not guide you into a false path like "eternal torment."
Again, insulting that you would state that the KJV and the NIV are poor translations. Your opinion. "Eternal torment" is not a "false path". It is a path that many are going to have to endure. If there is no eternal Hell and all men will be saved, how do you explain Revelation? How do you explain all the passages that speak of eternal punishment in Hell? There's plenty of them! Wait....YOU'RE being guided incorrectly. See? Isn't nice to hear someone say something like that, is it? To share what we believe or our particular religion believes is great, and I think that's what these forums are for. To tell other people what they believe or don't believe or telling them they're wrong or misguided or anything directed personally is rude and uncalled for and just not what these forums are for. I'm all for learning just as much or even more than I am for sharing, not for bashing.

Sometimes I believe you just have to agree to disagree. Not such a bad thing, I don't think.

[SIZE=2]Revelation 21:[/SIZE][SIZE=2]8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]John 6:40: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]This heretical doctrine teaches that you can not be ultimately lost and dwell in hell forever, since Reconciliationists think that God is so loving, He could never leave souls in torment for eternity. The problem with this belief is that they do not understand the definition of the true love of God. God is certainly a God of love, but He is also a God of justice, and true love cannot exist outside of justice. They want to define God as one of their own making that is acceptable to their understanding, instead of the God who is defined in the Bible as a God of wrath, as well as one of love. They quote this verse as their proof that Jesus will not judge anyone. John 12:47: And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]This is another case where they take scripture out of context to make it line up with their own idea of God. Notice the surrounding scriptures below, especially verse 46 that says, "I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness." It is belief and faith in God that saves us from the judgment of darkness and hell. Then, in the remainder of verses, we are told that indeed we shall be judged by the Word of God and the commandments that Jesus spoke. In the New Testament Jesus had a lot to say about hell being everlasting.[/SIZE]
[LEFT][SIZE=2]John 12:44-50:
44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.[/SIZE]


[/LEFT]

[SIZE=2]John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]Unsaved sinners will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]2 Thes. 1:8-9[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:56 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,543,923 times
Reputation: 990
Bellamamma, I asked for a verse (just one will do) that specifically says God is going to send someone to hell for eternity for not believing Jesus died for them.

Come on now! You said you believed the Bible! Surely it is in there some where!
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,405,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
I ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY believe the Bible and am ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY insulted that you would state otherwise. I don't care what Greek translation is. The Bible is in English, I speak English, I have the Holy Spirit to guide me in understanding what is being said by God in the Bible.

Why would you believe otherwise that someone does not go to Hell for eternity for not believing in God when it states that clearly IN THE BILBLE? In other words, do YOU not believe the Bible? It's a two-way street there, huh?

Not trying to be rude, JMO.
Hi bellamamma,

Our thread is going to be shut down if we start fighting.

I started this thread on the word "eternity" and its use in the Bible. I needed help with the Greek as this is a very important step in understanding the Bible at a little deeper level.

The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek. The tranlslations we have now come from the Catholic church, mostly, and they had very pagan ideas and were writing in Latin. That has greatly affected the English. Most people understand how to get saved. They understand the gospel, but some of us have been through very dark times and some of us just started studying with more depth than we had ever done before. There is a LOT of information available to us that we didn't use to have.

There were many people over the last 2000 years that have tried to say something about the traditions and doctrines and how some of them were a little fouled up because of strange translations.

My thread is supposed to be a discussion about those problems. That is why we are talking so much about the Greek.
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