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Old 04-20-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: PA
45 posts, read 39,936 times
Reputation: 15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Hi bellamamma,

Our thread is going to be shut down if we start fighting.

I started this thread on the word "eternity" and its use in the Bible. I needed help with the Greek as this is a very important step in understanding the Bible at a little deeper level.

The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek. The tranlslations we have now come from the Catholic church, mostly, and they had very pagan ideas and were writing in Latin. That has greatly affected the English. Most people understand how to get saved. They understand the gospel, but some of us have been through very dark times and some of us just started studying with more depth than we had ever done before. There is a LOT of information available to us that we didn't use to have.

There were many people over the last 2000 years that have tried to say something about the traditions and doctrines and how some of them were a little fouled up because of strange translations.

My thread is supposed to be a discussion about those problems. That is why we are talking so much about the Greek.
Sorry, I don't believe I'm fighting with anyone. Just stating that I was offended. My apologies if it came across any differently.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,383,474 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Bellamamma, I asked for a verse (just one will do) that specifically says God is going to send someone to hell for eternity for not believing Jesus died for them.

Come on now! You said you believed the Bible! Surely it is in there some where!
If you and ballamomma start getting into it you all are going to get this thread shut down.

I don't mind a little heat, but, I can see this getting ugly.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: PA
45 posts, read 39,936 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Bellamamma, I asked for a verse (just one will do) that specifically says God is going to send someone to hell for eternity for not believing Jesus died for them.

Come on now! You said you believed the Bible! Surely it is in there some where!
Unsaved sinners will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.


Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

I think this pretty much summed it up. Y'all have a nice chat....I'm off for other things. God bless!
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,383,474 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
Sorry, I don't believe I'm fighting with anyone. Just stating that I was offended. My apologies if it came across any differently.

It's okay. Just when people get too cranky on these threads the moderators shut 'em down. Nothing constructive is going on. Just people yelling at each other. It becomes obvious that no one wants to talk anymore. They just beat each other over the head with what they believe but nobody is listening or reading each others posts with a lot of thought.

It can get pretty wild around here, but, thanks to the mods, we don't have ANYTHING like I've seen on some other boards (cursing, demeaning, nastiness)
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:28 PM
 
3,577 posts, read 455,442 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
It's okay. Just when people get too cranky on these threads the moderators shut 'em down. Nothing constructive is going on. Just people yelling at each other. It becomes obvious that no one wants to talk anymore. They just beat each other over the head with what they believe but nobody is listening or reading each others posts with a lot of thought.

It can get pretty wild around here, but, thanks to the mods, we don't have ANYTHING like I've seen on some other boards (cursing, demeaning, nastiness)
Sometimes that happens but I do believe there are those that use the report post feature (I have at times) and the mods are good at editing it out of the thread -- Good mods!!
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,290,245 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Prove that the age to come is not the Millennium.
Please provide the exegesis of the scripture.
I asked first. Also, I already did with Dan 7 and Rev 22. It's your turn.

Quote:
Well, of course the Bible does in fact say all the eons end:

1Cor 10:11 Now all this befalls them typically. Yet it was written for our admonition, to whom the consummations of the eons have attained."
Paul is talking about the work of Christ, and how it was a "consummation of the ages".

Quote:
Heb 9:26 since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest."
Again, the same, as well as the Parousia, where Justification was manifest. Either way, he is talking about the close of "this age".

Quote:
Christ came so that when the eons end sin would be repudiated.
At the Paruosia of Christ , this age ends, and the "Age to Come Begins" and continues forever. Christ comes "after" the millenium, to separate the sheep and goats, the judgement.. Rev 20...no secret 1.5 coming.

Quote:
Daniel 7:14 which you quote above does not disprove the eons end. It just proves that "His dominion is an eonian dominion" or a dominion pertaining to the eons, and as such will not pass away during the eons, and that His kingdom won't be confined to just Israel:
Nice addition of the text to fit your paradigm. Again, you are wrong, you handle the text irresponsibly again. I underlined your own tripwire. If it doesn't pass away druing the eons, then it continues on, and on, and on...and as the text simply says. WILL NOT PASS AWAY - there is no eons anywhere in the areas you supplied, only with "everlasting dominion' which is contextually defined as WILL NOT PASS AWAY. You simply rewrite, or use someone els's translation who has rewritten the text and added to it. Tsk Tsk.

Quote:
Dan 7:14 to Him is granted jurisdiction and esteem and a kingdom, and all the peoples and leagues and language-groups shall serve Him; His jurisdiction, as an eonian jurisdiction, will not pass away, and His kingdom shall not be confined."
Underlined again for you...your own translation trips you.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:47 PM
 
3,577 posts, read 455,442 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
Sorry, I don't believe I'm fighting with anyone. Just stating that I was offended. My apologies if it came across any differently.
Hi Bellamamma,

It takes 2 to discuss (or argue) and both you and Eusbius seem to be giving and receiving the same, just in my opinion and my observation.

Both you and Eusbius want to stick up for what you both believe is THE TRUTH. And both of you think the other one is obviously deceived, because they do not believe as you do.

If someone does not try to understand where someone else is coming from and if what they believe to be true is actually not true, but a distortion based on false interpretation and mistranslation while they rigidly hold to their beliefs they will never see how they are deceived.

Herefornow started this thread because she was a believer like you in ET because she had been told by pastors etc it was true, but when she started investigating she has found that there are distortions, mistranslations.

That is her story and my story and Eusbius story and a few others story as well.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:35 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,442,202 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Prove that the age to come is not the Millennium.
Please provide the exegesis of the scripture.
Quote:
I asked first. Also, I already did with Dan 7 and Rev 22. It's your turn.
Rules changed. I asked second. The second person rules the rules.


Quote:
Eus wrote: Well, of course the Bible does in fact say all the eons end:

1Cor 10:11 Now all this befalls them typically. Yet it was written for our admonition, to whom the consummations of the eons have attained."
Quote:
scio replied: Paul is talking about the work of Christ, and how it was a "consummation of the ages".
Not quite there yet little buddy. What are the consummations of the coming eons? Love joy peace patience reconciliation, living as if we are already raised from the dead. That is what awaits all in reality when the eons end.


Quote:
Eus wrote: Heb 9:26 since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest."
Quote:
scio replied: Again, the same, as well as the Parousia, where Justification was manifest. Either way, he is talking about the close of "this age".
Nope, "eons" is in the plural. This age is just a singular age. Care to take another crack at your guessing?


Quote:
Quote:
Eus wrote: Christ came so that when the eons end sin would be repudiated.
Quote:
scio replied: At the Paruosia of Christ , this age ends, and the "Age to Come Begins" and continues forever. Christ comes "after" the millenium, to separate the sheep and goats, the judgement.. Rev 20...no secret 1.5 coming.
Nope, another strike against ya buddy. It is talking about a past act that will bring about a future result. BTW, this age is not a plural age but a singular age. So there are yet ages or eons to come, not AN eon to come.
Care to take another guess at it?



Quote:
Eus wrote: Daniel 7:14 which you quote above does not disprove the eons end. It just proves that "His dominion is an eonian dominion" or a dominion pertaining to the eons, and as such will not pass away during the eons, and that His kingdom won't be confined to just Israel:
Quote:
scio replied: Nice addition of the text to fit your paradigm. Again, you are wrong, you handle the text irresponsibly again. I underlined your own tripwire. If it doesn't pass away druing the eons, then it continues on, and on, and on...and as the text simply says. WILL NOT PASS AWAY - there is no eons anywhere in the areas you supplied, only with "everlasting dominion' which is contextually defined as WILL NOT PASS AWAY. You simply rewrite, or use someone els's translation who has rewritten the text and added to it. Tsk Tsk.
Glad you liked it. Now try to learn from it. What comes OF His kingdom will not pass away because all will be subjected to Him and given over to the Father.


Quote:
Eus wrote: Dan 7:14 to Him is granted jurisdiction and esteem and a kingdom, and all the peoples and leagues and language-groups shall serve Him; His jurisdiction, as an eonian jurisdiction, will not pass away, and His kingdom shall not be confined."
Quote:
Underlined again for you...your own translation trips you.
Note His jurisdiction is eonian or pertaining to the coming two eons. When those eons end He quits reigning.
My translation is just fine thank you. Care to try again? Remember if at first you don't succeed, try try again.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:38 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,442,202 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
Unsaved sinners will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.


Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

I think this pretty much summed it up. Y'all have a nice chat....I'm off for other things. God bless!
Dear bellamamma, this is getting tiring. I asked for a very specific Scripture which states that God is going to send someone to hell for eternity for not believing Christ died for them.


The so called "everlasting destruction" from the face of the Lord is for those who were mistreating the believers, not because they didn't believe Christ died for them.

Romans 10:9 also does not provide a verse I requested.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,290,245 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Love joy peace patience reconciliation, living as if we are already raised from the dead. That is what awaits all in reality when the eons end.
Eusebius,

You still haven't addressed why there is sin Rev 21:8 in the NH and E, post millenium and GWTJ?
Nice rules, but it still stands, you need to provide your reasons, and I will rebutt providing mine.
If you don't want to, that's ok too, but you haven't proved your point in any way.
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