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Old 04-28-2010, 07:19 AM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,416,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Sherente View Post
Agreed. Christ's messages and sermons were not simple, and are subject to mistranslations and misinterpretations, but they are the best thing we have. If Christ said nothing about a particular issue, then I do not consider there is a 'correct' or 'incorrect' Christian belief about it.
Is the following message not simple enough...that we would need a translator who is well verse in other languages?

Luke 10:25-28 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 And he said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL THY MIND; AND THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: THIS DO, AND THOU SHALT LIVE.

Then Jesus went on to tell the parable of the Good Samaritan that everyone is familiar with...

Blessings...
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:49 AM
 
294 posts, read 272,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
They're just the people who wrote writings of the early Christians. We have writings from all time periods. From just after Jesus, to now. Usually the ones written before 500ad is what I consider the Fathers. I use the term loosely, no has sat down and decided who the The Early Church Fathers. But like some were taught by the Apostles themselves. And yes, they agreed on many things.
The gospels show us that the disciples and Jesus hardly ever agreed with each other during Jesus' lifetime. So I do not consider that people in positions of power within the Church over the next 500 years spoke necessarily in accordance with Jesus' approach either. I only go back to what Jesus himself is reported to have said.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:32 AM
 
294 posts, read 272,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
Is the following message not simple enough...that we would need a translator who is well verse in other languages?

Luke 10:25-28 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 And he said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL THY MIND; AND THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: THIS DO, AND THOU SHALT LIVE.

Then Jesus went on to tell the parable of the Good Samaritan that everyone is familiar with...

Blessings...
These are great words, but how are you so sure that they are 'simple'?
How do you know that they do not also contain a deeper level of meaning? The Parable of the Sower is an apparently simple story about a man sowing corn, but Jesus' own explanation showed that it actually had a deeper meaning as well.

We learn from the gospels that Jesus 'would not speak to them (people) without using parables' (Mark 4:34), that Jesus himself said 'others, who are on the outside, hear all things by means of parables' (Mark 4:11), and that Jesus even told his disciples that he never spoke 'plainly', but always used 'figures of speech' (John 16:25). If we take Jesus at his word, we cannot limit anything he said to a 'simple' meaning. It is almost certain that the above words also have an element of 'parable'. This is the main problem with a conventional understanding of the gospel - if we only look at surface meanings, we are sometimes missing the point. For a more detailed explanation of this, you might wish to refer to a book called 'The Judas Secret'.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:55 AM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,416,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Sherente View Post
These are great words, but how are you so sure that they are 'simple'?
How do you know that they do not also contain a deeper level of meaning? The Parable of the Sower is an apparently simple story about a man sowing corn, but Jesus' own explanation showed that it actually had a deeper meaning as well.

We learn from the gospels that Jesus 'would not speak to them (people) without using parables' (Mark 4:34), that Jesus himself said 'others, who are on the outside, hear all things by means of parables' (Mark 4:11), and that Jesus even told his disciples that he never spoke 'plainly', but always used 'figures of speech' (John 16:25). If we take Jesus at his word, we cannot limit anything he said to a 'simple' meaning. It is almost certain that the above words also have an element of 'parable'. This is the main problem with a conventional understanding of the gospel - if we only look at surface meanings, we are sometimes missing the point. For a more detailed explanation of this, you might wish to refer to a book called 'The Judas Secret'.
To me the discourse between the lawyer and Jesus regarding enternal life is a simple question and answer which our spiritual discernment can easily identify with. Even his parables never strayed away from the known events of our earthly life. It was only when he was addressing the Pharisees and the scribes that he used deeper parables/imageries...for the priests claimed to know the deep things of God...imho
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:21 AM
 
294 posts, read 272,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
To me the discourse between the lawyer and Jesus regarding enternal life is a simple question and answer which our spiritual discernment can easily identify with. Even his parables never strayed away from the known events of our earthly life. It was only when he was addressing the Pharisees and the scribes that he used deeper parables/imageries...for the priests claimed to know the deep things of God...imho
I think the discourse with the lawyer is almost certainly a parable, but it is not something that I have studied in detail, so I won't say why I think this. 'The Judas Secret' shows that the gospel contains a number of hidden, deeper parables, albeit largely about earthly events.
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:36 AM
 
303 posts, read 486,013 times
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Augustine gave christianity "the Just War Theory" and the power of the sword to kill unbelievers....this man perverted the word of God which teaches us to "love our enemies & pray 4 those who persecute us"
Along with his "calvinism" ( ha ha ) he also thought that only catholics were going to heaven..
And as 4 martin luther he became an antisemetic woman hating pig infact hitler referred to luthers writings often in his speeches against the Jews...

MATTHEW 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEg2J84ni-c&feature=PlayList&p=E73037320CE1C2B3&playnext_fro m=PL&index=0&playnext=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Me3tJmxZTs&feature=PlayList&p=E73037320CE 1C2B3&playnext_from=PL&index=1&playnext=2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zXghSuirmQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVr6QSzFulY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0XSsV0oJzw&feature=related
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:14 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,200,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caucazhin View Post
Augustine gave christianity "the Just War Theory" and the power of the sword to kill unbelievers....this man perverted the word of God which teaches us to "love our enemies & pray 4 those who persecute us"
Along with his "calvinism" ( ha ha ) he also thought that only catholics were going to heaven..
And as 4 martin luther he became an antisemetic woman hating pig infact hitler referred to luthers writings often in his speeches against the Jews...

MATTHEW 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEg2J84ni-c&feature=PlayList&p=E73037320CE1C2B3&playnext_fro m=PL&index=0&playnext=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Me3tJmxZTs&feature=PlayList&p=E73037320CE 1C2B3&playnext_from=PL&index=1&playnext=2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zXghSuirmQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVr6QSzFulY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0XSsV0oJzw&feature=related
Cognitive dissonance ...

That pretty much sums up what has become of traditional fundamentalist Christianity ...
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:46 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,200,750 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by caucazhin View Post
Augustine gave christianity "the Just War Theory" and the power of the sword to kill unbelievers....this man perverted the word of God which teaches us to "love our enemies & pray 4 those who persecute us"
Along with his "calvinism" ( ha ha ) he also thought that only catholics were going to heaven..
And as 4 martin luther he became an antisemetic woman hating pig infact hitler referred to luthers writings often in his speeches against the Jews...

MATTHEW 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEg2J84ni-c&feature=PlayList&p=E73037320CE1C2B3&playnext_fro m=PL&index=0&playnext=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Me3tJmxZTs&feature=PlayList&p=E73037320CE 1C2B3&playnext_from=PL&index=1&playnext=2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zXghSuirmQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVr6QSzFulY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0XSsV0oJzw&feature=related

I really enjoyed those videos ... Those guys sound to me like they are on the right track ...
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:43 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,416,374 times
Reputation: 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I really enjoyed those videos ... Those guys sound to me like they are on the right track ...
K Ironmaw...you certainly got your point across...
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: US
26,264 posts, read 13,930,302 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Sherente View Post
These are great words, but how are you so sure that they are 'simple'?
How do you know that they do not also contain a deeper level of meaning? The Parable of the Sower is an apparently simple story about a man sowing corn, but Jesus' own explanation showed that it actually had a deeper meaning as well.

We learn from the gospels that Jesus 'would not speak to them (people) without using parables' (Mark 4:34), that Jesus himself said 'others, who are on the outside, hear all things by means of parables' (Mark 4:11), and that Jesus even told his disciples that he never spoke 'plainly', but always used 'figures of speech' (John 16:25). If we take Jesus at his word, we cannot limit anything he said to a 'simple' meaning. It is almost certain that the above words also have an element of 'parable'. This is the main problem with a conventional understanding of the gospel - if we only look at surface meanings, we are sometimes missing the point. For a more detailed explanation of this, you might wish to refer to a book called 'The Judas Secret'.
But did Jesus write the Gospels or did later people, who understood what He was saying write those Gospels?...do you understand what i am saying?...
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