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Old 04-18-2010, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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From "Saint" Augustine of Hippo:

CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

His last clause runs thus: I have kept the faith. But he who says this is the same who declares in another passage, I have obtained mercy that I might be faithful. 1 Corinthians 7:25 He does not say, I obtained mercy because I was faithful, but in order that I might be faithful, thus showing that even faith itself cannot be had without God's mercy, and that it is the gift of God.


That piece is from Augustine of Hippo. Notice that it shows something quite contrary to what many believe. Many believe that because they are Faithful therefore they obtain Mercy which is contrary to what Augustine says the verses mean.

What say you?
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Old 04-18-2010, 09:26 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,568,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
From "Saint" Augustine of Hippo:

CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

His last clause runs thus: I have kept the faith. But he who says this is the same who declares in another passage, I have obtained mercy that I might be faithful. 1 Corinthians 7:25 He does not say, I obtained mercy because I was faithful, but in order that I might be faithful, thus showing that even faith itself cannot be had without God's mercy, and that it is the gift of God.


That piece is from Augustine of Hippo. Notice that it shows something quite contrary to what many believe. Many believe that because they are Faithful therefore they obtain Mercy which is contrary to what Augustine says the verses mean.

What say you?
Good observation Paul. I agree with Saint Augustine of Hippo. Faith is a gift from above.
  • Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
  • James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Good observation Paul. I agree with Saint Augustine of Hippo. Faith is a gift from above.
  • Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
  • James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Yes, concerning Ephesians 2:8, Augustine continues:

"This he very expressly teaches us when he says, For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8 They might possibly say, We received grace because we believed; as if they would attribute the faith to themselves, and the grace to God. Therefore, the apostle having said, You are saved through faith, added, And that not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God."
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Good observation Paul. I agree with Saint Augustine of Hippo. Faith is a gift from above.
  • Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
  • James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
I agree as well....
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:42 AM
 
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I have a question. How do you choose what Early Church Father you read, and which ones you don't? And the ones you do read, if they write something you don't agree with, do you just ignore it?
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:42 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
From "Saint" Augustine of Hippo:

CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

His last clause runs thus: I have kept the faith. But he who says this is the same who declares in another passage, I have obtained mercy that I might be faithful. 1 Corinthians 7:25 He does not say, I obtained mercy because I was faithful, but in order that I might be faithful, thus showing that even faith itself cannot be had without God's mercy, and that it is the gift of God.


That piece is from Augustine of Hippo. Notice that it shows something quite contrary to what many believe. Many believe that because they are Faithful therefore they obtain Mercy which is contrary to what Augustine says the verses mean.

What say you?
That coincides perfectly with what Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:

12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinnersof whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:22 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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And some are given more faith than others.

Romans 12:3. "Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
I have a question. How do you choose what Early Church Father you read, and which ones you don't? And the ones you do read, if they write something you don't agree with, do you just ignore it?
Hi DNick, that is a great question. I believe it is all about discernment. I believe the Holy Spirit provides that discernment. There will be those that claim to have the Spirit say to embrace this while someone else will claim to have it and say to embrace something contrary. It doesn't mean that one of them isn't right. Those that have the Spirit will understand as the Spirit gives them discernment.
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That coincides perfectly with what Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:

12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinnersof whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Yes Bright Hope for Tomorrow, thanks for posting those.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: US
26,457 posts, read 14,037,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
From "Saint" Augustine of Hippo:

CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

His last clause runs thus: I have kept the faith. But he who says this is the same who declares in another passage, I have obtained mercy that I might be faithful. 1 Corinthians 7:25 He does not say, I obtained mercy because I was faithful, but in order that I might be faithful, thus showing that even faith itself cannot be had without God's mercy, and that it is the gift of God.


That piece is from Augustine of Hippo. Notice that it shows something quite contrary to what many believe. Many believe that because they are Faithful therefore they obtain Mercy which is contrary to what Augustine says the verses mean.

What say you?
I am a Calvinist...Calvinism connects to Augustinianism...it is also similar to Luther...and many others...
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