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Old 04-19-2010, 11:44 PM
3,576 posts, read 453,175 times
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Notice "the renewal of all things"... you (the twelve disciples) will sit on twelve thrones ... judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Do the twelve tribes of Israel even exist today?
How did those twelve disciples judge the 12 tribes of Israel?
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:39 AM
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
How did those twelve disciples judge the 12 tribes of Israel?
I have absolutely no idea... Ok maybe just one idea....Perhaps it is the twelve tribes that caused their death and they (the twelve tribes) are responsible for the shedding of innocent blood and judged by them in that way?
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
How did those twelve disciples judge the 12 tribes of Israel?
They did that already by the preaching of the gospel in the first century. The Twelve Tribes is symbolic of the elect of God that shall believe through their word. Jn 17:

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

They were reigning with Christ in that regard, this is what Jesus meant here Matt 16:

16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:19 AM
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It effects obedience to Gods will

The efficacious call is a call by God or Christ that produces instant obedience, for example Abraham in Gen 12:1-4

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

The writer of Hebrews says of this occurrence Heb 11:8

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

This is because the efficacious call effects gospel obedience..

The efficacious call is Illustrated with Saul into Paul Acts 9:1-6

1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Paul says this incident was His call from God, He was called by Gods Grace Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

It was the effectual working of His power Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

BTW, this is the True definition of The efficacious call to all the saints, its by the effectual working of Gods power..

Thats why Abraham obeyed also !

Again its seen in the calling of Zacchaeus Lk 19:1-9

1And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.

2And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

3And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.

4And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.

5And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

You see that, His immediate obedience was typical of His Father Abraham, because He too was the recipient [ as all the spiritual seed of Abraham are] of a efficacious call of Grace..

The responding to this call is not left up to the freewill of men to either obey or not, to submit or not, but it [ the call] makes them willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3

3Thy people [the seed of Abraham] shall be willing in the day of thy power,

That is their willingness is the effect of Gods power, Gods efficacious call..
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:43 AM
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The Holy, Effectual Call of God of God's Grace !

2 Tim 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

And Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

When elect sinners are called by Grace, or with a Holy calling there is in them a new nature with spiritual powers or abilities to hear, see, and understand spiritual things, of which the mere natural man cannot..

1 Cor 2:14

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned..

Remember, the only fruitful hearer in the parable was the one who understood the word..because it was cast upon good ground Matt 13:23

23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the effectual call they receive the spirit of adoption whereby the cry Abba Father, they are now capable of receiving spiritual instruction..however no spiritual instruction i.e believe or repent can be complied to without first having a new spiritual existence or being..and that is what the effectual call provides for the elect of God..
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:28 PM
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The one who comes from above is above all. The one who belongs to the world thinks like the world and speaks in a worldly way. But the one who comes from heaven .
He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.
Whoever does accept his testimony certifies that God is truthful.
For the One whom God sent speaks the words of God(Jesus sent His followers). His gift of the spirit is not rationed.
The Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.

JN; "No one can see the reign of God without being born from above.
No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit

JN;"Whoever acts in truth comes into the light, and His works of God are clearly seen".

Some might wonder, since the truth is the word of God, then could this mean you must speak the truth as Jesus did to clearly see the works of God. After all Jesus did say;"." As you (Father) sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world. He also said; "the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me".

JN; If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words he already has his judge namely the words I‘ve spoken that’s what will condemn him on the last day,
because I did not speak on my own, but the Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
And since I know that his commandmentmeans eternal life. What I say is spoken just as he instructed me.

JN; 'You are my friends if you do what I command you.

JN; If you love me, you will keep my commandments[.

JN; "Whoever has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him."
Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.
Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; yet the word you hear is not mine but that of the Father who sent me".
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:03 PM
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Matthew 22:1-14

"1And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14For many are called, but few are chosen."

Are the called in this passage those called by grace? Or is the "called" in this passage referring to everyone in the world - believers and nonbelievers alike?
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:18 AM
Location: Italy
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Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
romans 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Under the New Covenant, not all men and women are the called of Jesus christ. This called should not be confused with the called in matt 22:

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

There is a dispensational difference here, for under the Old Covenant Israel as a nation was called, and this is in reference to the nation as the context will tell, just read the passage leading up to that verse and that will be seen..

But in the NT post cross, the called are those that are the called of Jesus christ, like saul who became paul was called in acts 9..

So when writing His epistles and addressing them as the called, He has his personal experience to verify the calling he has in mind..

The called of Jesus christ is not for all men, but for those men and women whom Jesus christ was made sin for, and those whom His righteousness has been reckoned unto their account..

It is a distinct group of people, seperated from all other peoples in the world..

It is a call that though it is to a distinct people, its inclusive of both jew and gentile per rom 9:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

It is the call to whom the eternal inheritance belongeth heb 9:

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Here are more scriptures pointing out this distinguished group, the called:

1 cor 1:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Notice " but unto them which are called" in contrast to the stumbling jews and the wordly wise greeks"

But God has chosen ones [ the called] in both groups..

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

The called are the same here as the chosen..

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

The called: rom 8:

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Not all are of the called of Jesus christ, but only those given to Him for His seed, and they in due time are called into fellowship with Him.. 1 cor 1:

1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

This calling proceeds from the Faithfulness of God unto the chosen race, that seed whom Jesus died for..

isa 53:

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Aisi, Jesus' words "many are called, but few are chosen" refers to both the whole world (many) and the ones saved in this life (few). Jesus came because God loves the world (us) and He came to save us all. He is replacing Adam's broken operating system.

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Old 09-01-2011, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Aisi, Jesus' words "many are called, but few are chosen" refers to both the whole world (many) and the ones saved in this life (few). Jesus came because God loves the world (us) and He came to save us all. He is replacing Adam's broken operating system.

You way off. Read my posts, begin at the OP !
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