Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Isn't it far more likely that the Old Testament writers were writing about their times and THEIR immediate futures?
I think they just assumed, (since they'd seen all they did..the Resurrection,etc.) that all else would come to pass within their own lifetimes.But it was just that..an assumption.In reality? They didn't listen,for Jesus Himself said, "But of that day and hour,no man knows,not even the Son of God Himself". (talk about being hardheaded,huh? ) lol.
anyway,that is jmo.I don't like debates and we need not agree in order to abide in peace
Why are these obscure things always mysteries yet always 'explained' by certain individuals?
Because you don't put all of your cards on the table for your enemies to be able to discern.It was written that way for a reason.
"For those who are wise shall in the last days understand".
Even Daniel must have been giving God a fit over the strange visions he saw,for God said, "Go thy way Daniel,for my words are sealed up until the end of time".IOW-shut up.LOL.
I think they just assumed, (since they'd seen all they did..the Resurrection,etc.) that all else would come to pass within their own lifetimes.But it was just that..an assumption.In reality? They didn't listen,for Jesus Himself said, "But of that day and hour,no man knows,not even the Son of God Himself". (talk about being hardheaded,huh? ) lol.
anyway,that is jmo.I don't like debates and we need not agree in order to abide in peace
We're cool SC12, but I was speaking about the Old Testament writers.
11And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
12And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
The nation of Israel at one time in world history was representive of Gods covenant people here on earth and had many spiritual advantages over and above all other nations of the world..rom 3:
1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
The oracles of God, meaning in short, important spiritual matters of the True God..
rom 9:
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Much had been given to them as a nation in order to preserve her seperated from all other nations, in order for the messiah, to be born under Gods Law, to die the accursed for the seed of abraham..
Now Israels history as the special covenant people of God is riddled with unfaithfulness to God and apostacy, however, God tolerated her exisitnce up unto the promised seed was born, lived and died under the Law..
After the death of christ, of which national Israel was the chief culprit in bringing about, God Judged that nation as unworthy of eternal life acts 13:
45But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
This is here a final confirmation of God rejecting and leaving israel, the etnic jews under His Judgement..
This is confirmed too in matt 21:
33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
israel as a nation , ethnic wise, had lost her distinction and spiritual privileges of being that nation that represented the kingdom of God on earth, and that privilege was being granted to a nation, the gentile church, which would bear that precious spiritual fruit unto God..This is too expressed in rom 11:
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
They have been cast away..and this casting away is final, as far as nationally is concerned, but not individually..but national Israel who, because of her favoured position, should have bore fruit, because of the outward advantages, which the fig tree indicated, but did not bear fruit, God cursed that nation, and that forever..
14And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
National Israel will never again have spiritual significance in this world, all those advantages are forever forfieted, but this was always part of Gods eternal plan and purpose for that people..
matt 21:
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
It was the Lords doings, and as the wise man says:
ecc 3:
14I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
From what I have gathered so far, there are about 4 different opinions in this thread:
1. The Old Testament writers were NOT speaking of 1948, rather more likely, 400 BCE.
2. The Old Testament writers were speaking about 1948
3. The OT writers were speaking of a time when the church and the Jews would become one.
4. The nation of Israel was permanently cursed so a regathering is out of the question.
Which one is it? Apparently they can't all be right.
I'll take #1. Looking at the evidence it is clear to me that the OT writers were writing during a scattering and therefore the 400 BCE is a better fulfillment...
You forgot #5: A partial regathering in 400 BCE and a full regathering in 1948.
Some of it option 1 and finally option 2. Any time the latter days are spoken of, they are specifically speaking of the first advent generation of Christ IMO
I'll take #1. Looking at the evidence it is clear to me that the OT writers were writing during a scattering and therefore the 400 BCE is a better fulfillment...
You forgot #5: A partial regathering in 400 BCE and a full regathering in 1948.
True. I think that would be Mike55's position if I recall. Something about a dual prophecy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And was not intended to make the one who wrote it look like an idiot for asking...
National Israel is cursed forever !
